Forums - Why is Strider Top Tier? Show all 104 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Strategy & Tactics (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10) -- Why is Strider Top Tier? (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=30453) Posted by Rollchan on 07:14:2001 11:10 PM: Why is Strider Top Tier? Strider isn't anything w/out doom. His combos don't really take off that much, even with orbs. He really only has one trap. What gives? Posted by L337Shizumaru on 07:15:2001 01:03 AM: Strider is top-tier because *I* make him top-tier. Good enuff? Posted by Geocide on 07:15:2001 01:08 AM: I'm a versatile Strider player myself...so I guess I'll explain why. Hiryu has an incredible amount of pluses going for him. He has above average speed ranked up there with the likes of Spiderman and SonSon. His sword...in alot of cases...gives him alot of reach. His easily exploitable air and ground combos can seemingly be linked together with little to no effort. He has a projectile that can prevent jumping....as well as one perfect for constant use against turtlers. The Excalibur is great for catching an opponent in mid air or on the ground who are not familiar with the attack...and can be used the same way as Rogue's Power Dive. His Warp is quick and extremely effective for escapes. The Vajra can be used as a fake warp...and can knock opponents out of most attacks. He can easily teleport through an AHVB and still land the kick to knock Cable out of the move. The Gram has great distance...and it's quite damaging. It can be used from far away to knock opponents out of moves...and it can be performed in the air, standing or while crouching. He has a move that prevents a quick escape...the Keki Hari Tsuki....and while clinged to the wall, can easily knock an opponent out of an attack or play keepaway. Formation C/C-Fire is a 3rd projectile that's quick and while it doesn't do much damage, is still useful for knocking people out of mid moves. Posted by Geocide on 07:15:2001 01:17 AM: The Ragnarok HC is useful if the opponent misses an attack and is in a delayed position. Legion has a somewhat slow startup, the mechanical creatures CAN be destroyed and it doesn't do much chip damage...it does, however, provide a great 'get-back/keepaway' move to buy some time and come up with a plan. Another flaw is it can easily be completely avoided via super jump. His Ouroboros HC is highly acclaimed to being his best. It's used the same way has Spiral's Dancing Swords...as well as providing a small barrier that results in the opponent getting hit MOST of the time if they attempt a normal attack. His Variety assist is good for setting up the AHVB. He doesn't NEED Doom...same way as people thinks Cable NEEDS the AHVB. Those are all misconceptions. Posted by Raz0r on 07:15:2001 02:24 AM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide He doesn't NEED Doom...same way as people thinks Cable NEEDS the AHVB. Those are all misconceptions. Strider doesn't need Doom? Now that is bullshit. Without Doom, his traps wouldn't work. Doom makes Strider. And I know this because I've tried many Strider tricks in the game, but the Strider/Doom trap is what makes him top tier. He's easily taken out of the game without problems if Doom weren't there to protect him. Strider/Doom is by far the best team in the game if played correctly. They prevent assists from entering all the while chipping your life away. He can fight by himself, but it won't be a very long fight. Posted by Smiley on 07:15:2001 02:28 AM: strider's top tier cause he looks like tom cruise w/o his mask on. k? Posted by NIN_CrimzinTerry on 07:15:2001 02:31 AM: Im sorry but if i played a cable that didnt use an AHVB then there is no way he would win. AND i have seen PETER ROSA use Strider IronMAN VERY effectively so he works with out doom but IM's assist worked with Strider. Posted by Monkey on 07:15:2001 02:35 AM: quote: Originally posted by L337Shizumaru Strider is top-tier because *I* make him top-tier. Good enuff? You wish. Posted by dragonkahn on 07:15:2001 02:40 AM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide He doesn't NEED Doom...same way as people thinks Cable NEEDS the AHVB. Those are all misconceptions. It's true that Strider doesn't need Doom, like I don't need veggies, but why wouldn't you want all the free damage that Doom can give Strider. Doom makes Strider twice as better by making a solid lockdown and gives Strider even more ground control, allowing him to build meter more safely. Doom isn't needed, but why resist the temptation? Posted by Cletus Kasady on 07:15:2001 02:44 AM: That "one trap" just so happens to be the best trap in the game. The only reason you don't see it used so often is that it's hard to maintain. Mainly because Strider has so many mistake moves (Ragnarok instead of Ouroburos, Wall Climb instead of Teleport) and very low stamina. - Cletus Kasady Posted by Cletus Kasady on 07:15:2001 02:46 AM: And if you don't use B-Doom go for Team MaD L33T (AKA MVC1 Scrub Team): Y-Bonerine/B-Strider/A-Spiderman !!! ToP TIeR!!! Posted by MadjaYcD on 07:15:2001 03:46 AM: Strider/Doom is one of the best traps. It's just that if you want a decent aaa, you need strider to start first. All the people that attempt strider/Doom against me don't last long because they usually don't build enough meter to continue it as I kill Strider really fast with my magneto, or storm, or whoever. I would really like to see someone initiate a picture perfect Strider/Doom Posted by Geocide on 07:15:2001 04:07 AM: quote: Originally posted by Raz0r Strider doesn't need Doom? Now that is bullshit. Without Doom, his traps wouldn't work. And who the hell said he NEEDS traps to win? This trap/tier/glitch crap is starting to ruin all of your minds. quote: Doom makes Strider. In your opinion. quote: And I know this because I've tried many Strider tricks in the game, but the Strider/Doom trap is what makes him top tier. The trap doesn't make him top tier. His ability to handle most characters in the game based on ability alone is. quote: He's easily taken out of the game without problems if Doom weren't there to protect him. When played by a Strider player that sucked.....obviously quote: Strider/Doom is by far the best team in the game if played correctly. ......And your point is? quote: They prevent assists from entering all the while chipping your life away. I know. quote: He can fight by himself, but it won't be a very long fight. In your opinion, once again. Posted by Geocide on 07:15:2001 04:10 AM: quote: Originally posted by NIN_CrimzinTerry Im sorry but if i played a cable that didnt use an AHVB then there is no way he would win. Keep thinking that. Posted by Geocide on 07:15:2001 04:16 AM: quote: Originally posted by dragonkahn It's true that Strider doesn't need Doom, like I don't need veggies, but why wouldn't you want all the free damage that Doom can give Strider. Doom makes Strider twice as better by making a solid lockdown and gives Strider even more ground control, allowing him to build meter more safely. Doom isn't needed, but why resist the temptation? There's a difference between wanting Doom...and needing Doom. People want to believe...like with other characters...that they NEED Doom to win...which is the only real bullshit. Doom provides cover and chip damage while Strider prepares to attack....yeah...but that's an extra bonus. It is not necessary in order to gain the victory. In my case...I work with assists that, IMO, offer more than what Doom does in different situations. Posted by L337Shizumaru on 07:15:2001 04:26 AM: Strider can handle soooo many characters on his own with AND without the Strider/Doom trap. That is what makes him top tier. This was stated by someone I can't remember posting to this thread. I think it's Geocide. He can apply large amounts of pressure all on his opponents just by himself. Yes he takes shit damage, that's what things like his double jump and teleports are for. To get out of the fucking way. He doesn't inflict a lot of damage per hit, but he can throw out a whole shitload of attacks to apply pressure. He also owns Sentinel fer free liek whut! Posted by Geocide on 07:15:2001 04:46 AM: I also forgot...he has a crazy air game. Super jump, double jump towards wall, jump off, double jump in air and Excalibur to other side of screen. You can avoid an opponent for a long time keeping something like this up. Posted by dragonkahn on 07:15:2001 05:15 AM: Maybe it's just me... I like the feeling of making my opponent helpless, locking his ass down, ganging two-on-one on his ass, while he's crying his ass off like a little japanese schoolgirl. It gives me great pleasure. >=) Posted by dragonkahn on 07:15:2001 05:16 AM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide I also forgot...he has a crazy air game. Super jump, double jump towards wall, jump off, double jump in air and Excalibur to other side of screen. You can avoid an opponent for a long time keeping something like this up. Of course, you hafta factor in peeps who know how to wavedash well. Posted by CapMaster on 07:15:2001 05:31 AM: Strider is probobly my best character, so I'll explain my reason Why is Strider top tier? Speed. Range. Priority. Easy to do combos. Many special moves. Fast teleport. Ourobouros. Great chipping capabilities, God-like chipping capabilities with Doom. Posted by Geocide on 07:15:2001 05:43 AM: quote: Originally posted by dragonkahn Maybe it's just me... I like the feeling of making my opponent helpless, locking his ass down, ganging two-on-one on his ass, while he's crying his ass off like a little japanese schoolgirl. It gives me great pleasure. >=) I'm a firm beliver in taking out the trash by myself...that's why I don't have any real reliance on assists...except for when I want to kill people faster. I can destroy a whole team...if not 2 members with either Cable or Strider alone...which is why I hold the Doom assist and AHVB in such low regard. It is fun to gang rape somebody...but it's even more fun having somebody feel like crap knowing their whole team got killed by one character. Posted by Ouroborus on 07:15:2001 06:15 AM: Strider is top tier because he rapes Sentinel for free. Doom or no Doom, Infinity or no Infinity, Strider ownz Sentinel. Actually Strider/Doom trap rapes almost everyone. The trap is so perfect that only a few assist or supers can break it. Which side u gonna block? Are u gonna block low? Are you just gonna block or try to retaliate and get comboed by Strider? This trap is TOO GOOD. You just can't afford to make ANY mistake. one tempest/shockwave combo from Magnus and you are a gonner. 2 AHVB from Cable, you are forced to retreat. Posted by MarkyMark on 07:15:2001 07:31 AM: Re: Why is Strider Top Tier? quote: Originally posted by Rollchan Strider isn't anything w/out doom. Geocide's doing a fantastic job of making Strider sound better than he is, though he is somewhat correct. Strider doesn't necessarily need Doom. Though without Doom, no doubt, Strider is no longer at the top of the top tier. quote: Originally posted by Rollchan His combos don't really take off that much, even with orbs. Indeed, he's not the greatest character to combo with, which is why he isn't top tier because of his combos. As a Strider/Doom fanatic myself, I'll say that combos are just a chance for Strider to build more meter (and the damage is just a bonus). quote: Originally posted by Rollchan He really only has one trap. What gives? His trap is so variable that it's really difficult to call it "only one trap." The basic premise is always the same (pin with Orbs, chip with Doom), but the same could be said of all trapping characters. And you must realize, Strider/Doom trap is so very good. It's quite literally damage for free (unless you count your own sweat as a price to pay), and with Strider, you never even have to connect an attack to win the fight - chip damage is all he needs. But even beyond his stellar trapping, Strider has some awesome mobility that makes other rushers have to work way too hard just to get close to Strider (when Strider doesn't wanna be close), and makes runaway games scramble to get away from the Ninja. I don't know where Geocide's coming from saying that Excalibur has any real uses (outside of a combo), and that his teleport kick (QCB+K) is actually worth doing, or even that Ragnarok is a useful tool to use when people whiff attacks (way better to air combo, end with j.HP, land, c.LP + Doom, c.LK, c.LP, c.LK, s.HP/HK XX Bird/Dog XX Orbs, and go into the trap - causes more damage, and sets up the trap perfectly). Orbs are truly his only worthwhile HC (except for maybe a DHC), and in the case of Strider/Doom, punch teleports his only useful special move. Posted by dragonkahn on 07:15:2001 07:48 AM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide The Excalibur is great for catching an opponent in mid air or on the ground who are not familiar with the attack...and can be used the same way as Rogue's Power Dive. Excalibur has too much lag and makes Strider way open to attack. Excalibur makes him lunch to wavedashers. quote: The Vajra can be used as a fake warp...and can knock opponents out of most attacks. why not just regular teleport since you can start attacking right away (or block right away), as opposed to doing Vajra and run the risk of getting punished afterwards. Posted by Geocide on 07:15:2001 07:59 AM: Re: Re: Why is Strider Top Tier? quote: Originally posted by MarkyMark Geocide's doing a fantastic job of making Strider sound better than he is, though he is somewhat correct. Strider doesn't necessarily need Doom. Though without Doom, no doubt, Strider is no longer at the top of the top tier. I was always one to believe a character's usefulness in battle made them top tier...not how well they worked with assists. Strider can survive without Doom...Doom just gives Strider an edge and access to a more stabalized trap. quote: Indeed, he's not the greatest character to combo with, which is why he isn't top tier because of his combos. As a Strider/Doom fanatic myself, I'll say that combos are just a chance for Strider to build more meter (and the damage is just a bonus). People take his combos for granted. A launch into a simple 9 hit double jump air combo is 41% damage. Your right...combos don't make him top-tier...he's an all around character that's packed and ready for almost any situation. THAT'S what makes him top-tier...and highly claimed to be one of the top three characters in the game. quote: I don't know where Geocide's coming from saying that Excalibur has any real uses (outside of a combo) It's very practical. It can be used as a surprise move on various ocassions due to it being able to be nailed from multiple angles. While low in mid air, it's easy to glide above a projectile and catch the opponent in a delayed stance. You can surprise someone landing from a super jump...etc. quote: and that his teleport kick (QCB+K) is actually worth doing It goes through most attacks and can still hit the opponent. It's also a practical move. The assist version has an incredible amount of use and is seemingly disregarded too often. quote: or even that Ragnarok is a useful tool to use when people whiff attacks It's very useful. Jump over a projectile, and perform it while opponent is in delayed stance. It's even more deadly against beamers like Iceman and Doom. Hell...when an opponent tries to dash in...they can get caught by it. Or for catching Hulk after a Gamma Crush...IM after blocked PC at close range...etc. Posted by Geocide on 07:15:2001 08:11 AM: quote: Originally posted by dragonkahn Excalibur has too much lag and makes Strider way open to attack. Excalibur makes him lunch to wavedashers. It all depends on the situations. You don't always need a fast/instant attack. Everything revolves around timing. Aside from what I said to Mark...there's also it's use against flying characters (IM, WM, Magneto...etc). I myself use it to glide over projectiles and hit the opponent...as well as using it in combos. I've found use for all 4 directional angles. quote: why not just regular teleport since you can start attacking right away (or block right away), as opposed to doing Vajra and run the risk of getting punished afterwards. I can Warp behind them and do a Ragnarok...that's another way to use the Ragnarok right there. I like using the Vajra against beamers...it teleports through...and he reappears pretty high up and comes down quickly. That's one of the only real safe ways to use it. People like Ryu can shoryuken after an hadouken quickly. The move is meant for 1 or 2 situations, if you think about it. The other purpose is the confusion factor that may be added...resulting in a missed attack and a moment to attack the opponent. Posted by dragonkahn on 07:15:2001 08:17 AM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide I can Warp behind them and do a Ragnarok...that's another way to use the Ragnarok right there. I like using the Vajra against beamers...it teleports through...and he reappears pretty high up and comes down quickly. That's one of the only real safe ways to use it. People like Ryu can shoryuken after an hadouken quickly. The move is meant for 1 or 2 situations, if you think about it. The other purpose is the confusion factor that may be added...resulting in a missed attack and a moment to attack the opponent. Again, like I said before. Vajra or Regular teleport? For the scenario you describe, would you rather do Vajra and do measly points of damage OR would you rather regular teleport behind and bust an air combo on him, which does more damage, not to mention build more meter for Orbs. Posted by Geocide on 07:15:2001 08:32 AM: quote: Originally posted by dragonkahn Again, like I said before. Vajra or Regular teleport? For the scenario you describe, would you rather do Vajra and do measly points of damage OR would you rather regular teleport behind and bust an air combo on him, which does more damage, not to mention build more meter for Orbs. You have a point. Posted by oORYUOo on 07:15:2001 10:07 AM: I think his ability to combo off of just about anything makes him top tier. he is also hard to hit. and he is fast. not extremley fast, but fast enough to evade lots of things. Posted by Clockw0rk on 07:15:2001 01:41 PM: quote: Originally posted by Smiley strider's top tier cause he looks like tom cruise w/o his mask on. k? The best reply in this thread. Hah! - Clockw0rk Posted by Shuzer on 07:15:2001 04:45 PM: Geocide: You're saying that Strider can do well at YOUR level of play. Pretty much everyone else is talking about top-level play. Bring your Strider play to a known area and see how well it does. If you can't get to a place somehow, then listen to the people that CAN play at those places. They usually know what they're talking about. Oh and some people play Strider/A-IM for some reason. People keep getting hit by crossup. Heh. Posted by L337Shizumaru on 07:15:2001 05:52 PM: Strider can do well at any level of play. It's the fact that he can handle majority of all the characters and most top-tiers WITHOUT DOOM that makes him top-tier. Give him Doom, and he's probably at the very top with Cable w/ Meter and AAA. Posted by flesh~n~bone on 07:15:2001 06:42 PM: strider shouldn't be top tier...he sux Posted by Geocide on 07:15:2001 07:42 PM: quote: Originally posted by Shuzer Geocide: You're saying that Strider can do well at YOUR level of play. Pretty much everyone else is talking about top-level play. Bring your Strider play to a known area and see how well it does. If you can't get to a place somehow, then listen to the people that CAN play at those places. They usually know what they're talking about. Oh and some people play Strider/A-IM for some reason. People keep getting hit by crossup. Heh. ...And what makes you assume my type of play isn't top level? All I know is...my Strider has handled well against some of the top players in Miami outside the Flippers gang. I'm not the type to really care how people on here rate my play ability....and I don't have anything to prove. Posted by Colin on 07:15:2001 08:26 PM: Miami is not a Marvel hotspot or anything, dude. I've played there before several times at Flippers and Rockys(I think that was what it was called). This was back when I lived in Atlanta. I sucked back then and I still owned almost everybody for free and beat the others most of the time with just basic sent/bh. I moved to northern cali about 4 months ago and my whole perspective on that game has changed. I promise you that the average scrub from golfland could eat your entire state alive. Not trying to sound insulting, it's just that a lot of people think they are good and stop improving. You need to improve a lot. Come to B5 and play strider alone. Start strider alone and I will give you $100 if you can keep him alive for 15 seconds of match time against ricky, duc, alex, etc. I don't even expect you to hit them but if you can just stay alive for 15 seconds I'll be impressed. You should start playing strider with doom and practice that way if you want your strider to dominate. -Colin Posted by NerenatwaH on 07:15:2001 08:46 PM: Strider needs Doom? Hah! I used to think so. Til I got beat by a strider/storm/sent. Didn't Ghengis win a tourney over Viscant and ShadyK using Strider/Cable/Ironman???? Posted by Geocide on 07:15:2001 09:26 PM: quote: Originally posted by Colin Miami is not a Marvel hotspot or anything, dude. I know it isn't. Most people down here were more into the KOF games. We didn't think the VS series required much skill until MvsC2 came out. quote: I've played there before several times at Flippers and Rockys(I think that was what it was called). This was back when I lived in Atlanta. I sucked back then and I still owned almost everybody for free and beat the others most of the time with just basic sent/bh. I moved to northern cali about 4 months ago and my whole perspective on that game has changed. I promise you that the average scrub from golfland could eat your entire state alive. Not trying to sound insulting, it's just that a lot of people think they are good and stop improving. What seperates me from most people on this site is I'm not cocky. I don't go around saying I'm good...blah blah blah. If I beat you...I beat you. If I lose...I lose. I take every loss as a way to get stronger. I'm not going to bitch and give up games because of losing, though. Yeah...I hear alot about Cali players being good and so forth...but skill is not determined by one's location. I've gone head to head with players in Miami and all around NY. I've won several...lost a few. I'm far from unbeatable...I'm far from being the best. I already know that. But me being a Miami player makes no difference. quote: You need to improve a lot. I do constantly. I never set still on my current play methods and wait until someone can beat them until I get better. I better myself whenever I get the time. quote: Come to B5 and play strider alone. Start strider alone and I will give you $100 if you can keep him alive for 15 seconds of match time against ricky, duc, alex, etc. I don't even expect you to hit them but if you can just stay alive for 15 seconds I'll be impressed. This was downright foolish of you. Duc, Alex, Ricky, Arturo...etc are all good from what I hear. I respect them all because they have made a name for themselves...and are highly acclaimed to being the top players in the country. You have to understand something, though...not every GREAT player enters tourneys and what's their name out there. Hell...from what you've said earlier...you clearly haven't had a taste of what Miami truly has to offer. I remember this little 12 year old kid...always coming to the arcade with his father and could literally...slaughter most players in MvsC with Strider/Ryu. Or my friend Ty...raking up 60+ wins against the best players in KOF. And none of my old comp were pushovers, either. I've learned alot from them back in the day as well as taught them. The day you can take out a well setup and experienced Spiral/Cable/Doom (w/ Spiral/Doom trap) with 60 secs left on the clock (out of 90 secs) like I can...is the day you can stop assuming how I play based on the strats I give. For now, all I can do is compare my play style against Valle, Chen and others through tourney vids. I'm not going to B5. I'm not a tourney person. I've entered 3 and won 2 back in the day just for the hell of it...I don't plan on ever entering any others unless a local one to play against some FL people on here that like to talk. quote: You should start playing strider with doom and practice that way if you want your strider to dominate. My Strider can already dominate with other assists...and...I never said I didn't use him with Doom, now did I? People said he NEEDS Doom...I told them he doesn't. Posted by VenomFang on 07:16:2001 04:03 AM: Personally, I'd love to hear what these 'other assists' are... -vf Posted by Smiley on 07:16:2001 04:42 AM: well, put it this way, a 'top tier' character is someone that can do EVERYTHING, or is someone who is THE BEST AT WHAT HE DOES in this case, spiral, storm, sent can do everything (well, at least what's necessary) teleport, fly, whatever. while mag is king of rusdown, and cable's ability to punish ANY mistake w/o a price (cept lvs) make these two top tier. along these lines, strider, when w/ doom is the KING of trapping. while it's true that the trap is not always perfect, cable in this case will not always hit the AHVB, nor will mags ALWAYS hit the tempest combos, or the throw combos... thus, strider is top tier... he is the best TRAPPER. sidenote: he can also handle himself properly, w/o doom. his range, speed, and teleport makes him great on these things alone... top tier actually. another note: strider looks like tom cruise w/o his scarf Posted by Iceman on 07:16:2001 06:50 AM: I still want to know how Strider can handle all of the top tier characters w/o Doom. Because Strider has horrible stamina, his big combos are gone (41% combos are NOTHING. Everybody in this game spare 5-10 characters can do a 41% combo. Hell, last time I checked, Zangief's 4 hit air combos did that much), and his teleport mix-ups aren't THAT good. What makes his teleport mix-ups better is the fact people get scared, then get sloppy from trying to get away from the Orbs. Now, w/o Doom, who would be scared of the Orbs? I damn sure wouldn't be. Strider vs. Storm: What's Strider going to do (other than call an AAA) to keep Storm from rushing him down? There's no Strider/Doom trap, so he can't make her scared to stay on the ground. Storm is faster, has superior throw range on Strider (and damn near everyone else), and Storm has bigger combos once she does hit. Storm has every advantage in this fight except a teleport. And the teleport won't overcome all the other things mentioned, especially when Storm has an air dash and more speed. Strider vs. Magneto: No Strider/Doom means Strider is like everybody else, going to get their shit rushed down hard. Same as Storm, Magneto is faster and hits harder. And to boot, Strider only needs to be launched/comboed once, and the fight may end right there. Magneto has every advantage against except a teleport, which doesn't matter when you have magneto's speed and air dash. Strider vs. Sentinel: Ok, I'll give Strider this one only on the grounds of the infinite. Doom or no Doom, Sentinel needs to be careful or else he might die to an infinte. With his high Stamina, it might take two to kill Sentinel. The fact remains, Sentinel needs to be careful. Strider vs. Cable: Much like Storm, no Strider/Doom means Cable doesn't need to be afraid to stay on the ground with Strider. Cable on the ground with sufficent meter means death for Strider. Strider will need 3 big mistakes to beat Cable. Cable just needs one tiny one. Personally, I'd rather be in Cable's position. Strider vs. Blackheart: W/O Strider/Doom, Strider can still use Orbs to keep BH grounded, but with no Doom, he loses the most efficent way to deal damage. So, all Blackheart needs to do if grounded is wait it out, then he will be free to return to the skies. W/O Doom around, BH can now beat Strider in a chipping contest. I'm not sure what has more priority, BH's jumping short/jab, or Strider's launcher. This could make a difference. Barring Strider having some HUGE priority edge on BH (and he'd be just about the only character to have such an advantage), BH wins this one because he's free to play his game. Strider vs. Spiral: The teleport won't save Strider once Spiral gets started. Not having Doom around means Spiral has nothing to fear should Strider get a large enough gaps to start the Orbs. And teleport mix-up Strider has is gone since Spiral can counter teleport every time Strider does. Spiral has the edge here. Damn, I'd hate to see Strider lose 75% damage from one Spiral throw Strider vs. Doom: Doom is free to stay on the ground and abuse Jump Back Fierce to a degree, because Strider's teleport is vulnarable on start-up. Strider won't have the tools to completly overcome Doom's air photon patterns. Advantage Doom. Strider vs. Cyclops: Cyclops builds meter faster, and chips a hell of a lot harder since there isn't Strider/Doom to worry about. Cyclops can win just by running like a puss and charging meter. I wonder if Cyclops jumping d+HK beats out Strider's launcer? That would make an otherwise decent fight a wash out for Cyclops. From what I know, Cyclops has the edge here. Strider vs. Iron Man: Strider needs 3 combos, and Iron Man needs one, two tops. This fight isn't a complete wash, but not having Doom around leaves IM free to use low alititude Smart Bomb patterns along with trying to rush Strider. And Iron Man who can combo into the infinite (i.e., a "good" Iron Man) holds all the cards here. Unless Strider is packing an "Anti-Iron Man" assist, IM should win. Very of these fights are hopeless (only Mag, Storm, and maybe Cable really should be), but to say Strider can hanlde the top tier w/o Doom is false. W/O Doom, but with Iceman, Spiral, or Sentinel, Stirder would probably be hovering in the second tier, as these assists would give him some chip during the orbs. But Doom's combination or chip and lockdown is what makes Strider top tier, and probably the best on the game. P.S. Cable w/o AHVB is like Captain America with a beam. A mediocre character who is a slow pixie/shoto, but with legit long range attacks. Cable might be low second tier because of the potentinal traps/patters Cable still has w/o AHVB. Problem is, many of these might not have been found since Cable would not be nearly as effective (and not top tier), therefore not used/practiced as much. Posted by Hagure Metaru on 07:16:2001 07:23 AM: Beware Angry Strider!!! Whatever you do, DON'T KILL DOOM!!! Posted by MarkyMark on 07:16:2001 08:16 AM: quote: Originally posted by Hagure Metaru ... Is that you as a child?! Geocide, guys' are right. You strats wouldn't hang with other top level players. Come to California and I guarantee you won't do well with any Strider/non-Doom team. Posted by Geocide on 07:16:2001 08:20 AM: Storm, Strider and Cable are the top 3 most useful characters in the game. What views and opinions you may have on Strider won't change this. He's top tier. Some of you think he's nothing without Doom. Fine...I'm leaving it at that. Do what you want with this thread now. I gave my 2 cents, anyway. I'm no longer needed. Posted by MarkyMark on 07:16:2001 08:29 AM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide Storm, Strider and Cable are the top 3 most useful characters in the game. What views and opinions you may have on Strider won't change this. He's top tier. Some of you think he's nothing without Doom. Fine...I'm leaving it at that. Do what you want with this thread now. I gave my 2 cents, anyway. I'm no longer needed. Most useful? If you think anyone is top tier alone, and needs no assists to beat top players, then you're obviously not being challenged enough in Florida. I'm sure that our collective views aren't enough to persuade you otherwise, even if we are more exposed to great play. If you wanna see what we're talking about, come play in California at a well-known place. You'll see. Posted by Geocide on 07:16:2001 08:41 AM: quote: Originally posted by MarkyMark Most useful? If you think anyone is top tier alone, and needs no assists to beat top players, then you're obviously not being challenged enough in Florida. I'm sure that our collective views aren't enough to persuade you otherwise, even if we are more exposed to great play. If you wanna see what we're talking about, come play in California at a well-known place. You'll see. Mark...there are different sets of tiers. Strength, Use and Overall are the main ones, I believe. Strider is top in both Overall and Use. Characters can be top tier alone. Characters that work well with assists is another type of tier in itself where traps and setups are concerned. I don't know why the subject is constantly going back to me being seemingly taunted because of my strats and opinions. I'm never going to take a trip to Cali...not in this lifetime, anyway. You all can hold your opinions...as well as false assumptions on my skill level...it doesn't matter at all in the end. Rollchan asked why Strider is top tier...I didn't give him strats...I gave him facts. It's for him to come back and read up on this thread now. Like I said...my 'work' here is done. Posted by MarkyMark on 07:16:2001 08:51 AM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide Mark...there are different sets of tiers. Strength, Use and Overall are the main ones, I believe. Strider is top in both Overall and Use. Characters can be top tier alone. Characters that work well with assists is another type of tier in itself where traps and setups are concerned. I don't know why the subject is constantly going back to me being seemingly taunted because of my strats and opinions. Er, I believe I speak for all of us when I say, the only tier in question is the one in which characters are ranked best in terms of tournament competition. That means assists, that means rush down, that means traps, that means everything. I've never heard of any separate tiering based on "strength, use and overall" (whos categorical definitions are so vauge that I'd assume them all to refer to the same tier). And if you're running around, doing Excalibur for the Hell of it because you think it'll get you to the other side of the screen quick or it'll hold you in the air longer, then there's no doubt in my mind that your level of play is not equal to that level of play to which we are all referring. Posted by Ouroborus on 07:16:2001 09:51 AM: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Iceman I still want to know how Strider can handle all of the top tier characters w/o Doom. Because Strider has horrible stamina, his big combos are gone (41% combos are NOTHING. Everybody in this game spare 5-10 characters can do a 41% combo. Hell, last time I checked, Zangief's 4 hit air combos did that much), and his teleport mix-ups aren't THAT good. What makes his teleport mix-ups better is the fact people get scared, then get sloppy from trying to get away from the Orbs. Now, w/o Doom, who would be scared of the Orbs? I damn sure wouldn't be. [b] Strider vs. Storm: What's Strider going to do (other than call an AAA) to keep Storm from rushing him down? There's no Strider/Doom trap, so he can't make her scared to stay on the ground. Storm is faster, has superior throw range on Strider (and damn near everyone else), and Storm has bigger combos once she does hit. Storm has every advantage in this fight except a teleport. And the teleport won't overcome all the other things mentioned, especially when Storm has an air dash and more speed. Ouroborus can halt Storm rushdown. It might not do much damage but it can give Strider some offense. Strider vs. Magneto: No Strider/Doom means Strider is like everybody else, going to get their shit rushed down hard. Same as Storm, Magneto is faster and hits harder. And to boot, Strider only needs to be launched/comboed once, and the fight may end right there. Magneto has every advantage against except a teleport, which doesn't matter when you have magneto's speed and air dash. Strider has more reach than Magneto and like I said before, Ouroborus halts rushdown. But no means this is an easy match for strider Strider vs. Sentinel: Ok, I'll give Strider this one only on the grounds of the infinite. Doom or no Doom, Sentinel needs to be careful or else he might die to an infinte. With his high Stamina, it might take two to kill Sentinel. The fact remains, Sentinel needs to be careful. Sentinel can't do much against the Ouroborus and his teleports. Ouroborus can go thru the drones. With the Orbs in motion, Strider can just rush the shit down. Strider vs. Cable: Much like Storm, no Strider/Doom means Cable doesn't need to be afraid to stay on the ground with Strider. Cable on the ground with sufficent meter means death for Strider. Strider will need 3 big mistakes to beat Cable. Cable just needs one tiny one. Personally, I'd rather be in Cable's position. This is Striders hardest match ups. Strider can try to get some offense with the Orbs but this match goes in Cables favor. Strider vs. Blackheart: W/O Strider/Doom, Strider can still use Orbs to keep BH grounded, but with no Doom, he loses the most efficent way to deal damage. So, all Blackheart needs to do if grounded is wait it out, then he will be free to return to the skies. W/O Doom around, BH can now beat Strider in a chipping contest. I'm not sure what has more priority, BH's jumping short/jab, or Strider's launcher. This could make a difference. Barring Strider having some HUGE priority edge on BH (and he'd be just about the only character to have such an advantage), BH wins this one because he's free to play his game. Strider wins this one. With the Ouroborus on, BH loses his air game and Strider is free to rush. Strider vs. Spiral: The teleport won't save Strider once Spiral gets started. Not having Doom around means Spiral has nothing to fear should Strider get a large enough gaps to start the Orbs. And teleport mix-up Strider has is gone since Spiral can counter teleport every time Strider does. Spiral has the edge here. Damn, I'd hate to see Strider lose 75% damage from one Spiral throw Orbs neutralize Swords and he has more range. Spiral can't attack immediately after teleporting like Strider does. I'm not saying that Strider beats Spiral but he does put up a fight. Strider vs. Doom: Doom is free to stay on the ground and abuse Jump Back Fierce to a degree, because Strider's teleport is vulnarable on start-up. Strider won't have the tools to completly overcome Doom's air photon patterns. Advantage Doom. WTF?!? So can Doom abuse his j.FP against cyke too? the teleports can escape the pink shit and he can double jump in the air with the orbs on and nail him Strider vs. Cyclops: Cyclops builds meter faster, and chips a hell of a lot harder since there isn't Strider/Doom to worry about. Cyclops can win just by running like a puss and charging meter. I wonder if Cyclops jumping d+HK beats out Strider's launcer? That would make an otherwise decent fight a wash out for Cyclops. From what I know, Cyclops has the edge here. As long as Strider has meter Strider wins this one. Strider can teleport away from the MOB. He has more range than Cyke. Strider vs. Iron Man: Strider needs 3 combos, and Iron Man needs one, two tops. This fight isn't a complete wash, but not having Doom around leaves IM free to use low alititude Smart Bomb patterns along with trying to rush Strider. And Iron Man who can combo into the infinite (i.e., a "good" Iron Man) holds all the cards here. Unless Strider is packing an "Anti-Iron Man" assist, IM should win. Strider can teleport away from the bombs. IM can't outrush Strider cause he is too damn slow. Strider does NOT have that much of a disadvantage of getting owned by top tiers. ALthough without the trap, he has some problems and he is considered low top tier. He is still a pale comparison without Doom though. Posted by ID on 07:16:2001 10:01 AM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide That's one of the only real safe ways to use it. People like Ryu can shoryuken after an hadouken quickly Wtf are you playing? ST? Most of the situations you described throughout this thread are ridiculous..The examples you used to show the usefulness of the warpkick can be Regular/doublejumped over and punished. Your use of excalibur (sp?) will get you AHVBed, or, some other super. Strider would be low second tier without doom. You may have had some spur of the moment matches where strider just raped opposition (Like Clockw0rk at AZ w/ omegared assist), But theres NOTHING strider can consistently do to keep winning. He'd lose to cable easy, Mags would kill him so quick, Ugh. The reason people assumed your level of play isnt Top-Level is your reasoning of what makes strider top tier. If it was that easy, 80% of pixies would be top tier. You need to play a HIGH level Person to see what Top tier can REALLy do. Posted by Clockw0rk on 07:16:2001 03:33 PM: quote: Originally posted by ID You may have had some spur of the moment matches where strider just raped opposition (Like Clockw0rk at AZ w/ omegared assist) Heh... didn't think anyone was watching that match. Go Angry Strider!! =] As long as you use the 2/3 rule, Strider can be decent without Doom IMO. Assists that go pretty good with Strider include Sent drones, IM unibeam (ugh), Icebeam, and especially Spiral swords (Spiral/Strider/Sent is a prettygood team). Oh and Hagure's avatar is me in 2nd grade. What a mischevious slime! - Clockw0rk Posted by Raz0r on 07:16:2001 04:39 PM: I agree with Ouroboros on this one. He really nailed it on the head. Strider alone MIGHT give some competition, but not much of it. If he had an air-dash(I only wish) then he might be able to but don't say that Excalibur is one. That dive will leave you open. And now this thread can be put to rest since Genocide decided that he was overpowered. One. Posted by L337Shizumaru on 07:16:2001 05:36 PM: Are we comparing Strider against with the top-tiers alone or with an assist other than Doom? The only bad match-ups that Strider has one-on-one that I can think of would be Storm and Fagnus. He owns Sent and BH. Spiral would be a good match. I've played weak Spiral players, never any tough ones so I don't know about that. Now Cable. People say "One mistake and Strider is dead." Oh reaaaallly? What if Cable only has one meter? How the fuck does Strider die to that. He doesn't. Strider can put enough pressure on his own. All he needs to do is get close. Double jump in the air and jump in with HK. It has a lot of reach to it. I just don't see Strider dying to Cable unless he has 3 meters. Without the 3 meters, Strider can keep him pinned and rush him down. Once Strider is in close, either use Orbs or call Bird/Cat xx Orbs. Use teleports if Cable starts trying to runaway. Posted by ID on 07:16:2001 07:09 PM: quote: Originally posted by Clockw0rk Heh... didn't think anyone was watching that match. Go Angry Strider!! =] As long as you use the 2/3 rule, Strider can be decent without Doom IMO. Assists that go pretty good with Strider include Sent drones, IM unibeam (ugh), Icebeam, and especially Spiral swords (Spiral/Strider/Sent is a prettygood team). Oh and Hagure's avatar is me in 2nd grade. What a mischevious slime! - Clockw0rk Was some crazy shit..I woulda yelled "RAPE" or, something, if it wasnt already played out by everyone else. all those assists mentioned are good for, again, assist, teleport, to catch em by surprise..but thats just it..Its a surprise..Once people catch on, its just not gonna work. Strider is Just another pixie without doom. Posted by dragonkahn on 07:16:2001 07:27 PM: quote: Originally posted by Clockw0rk Oh and Hagure's avatar is me in 2nd grade. What a mischevious slime! Geez, what next? Viscant with an avatar of ShadyK in a thong? Posted by Geocide on 07:16:2001 08:24 PM: I was going to leave this thread alone...but it seems I can't now. quote: Originally posted by MarkyMark Er, I believe I speak for all of us when I say, the only tier in question is the one in which characters are ranked best in terms of tournament competition. That means assists, that means rush down, that means traps, that means everything. I've never heard of any separate tiering based on "strength, use and overall" (whos categorical definitions are so vauge that I'd assume them all to refer to the same tier). Then you are misinformed...and if you speak for everyone, then you all are. There are different tiers...Speed, Damage (strength), Usefulness, Ability (use) and Overall playbility. Tournament rankings have no say in the tiers just mentioned...they simply rank characters on how well they can be played and used against other top tier characters. quote: And if you're running around, doing Excalibur for the Hell of it because you think it'll get you to the other side of the screen quick or it'll hold you in the air longer, then there's no doubt in my mind that your level of play is not equal to that level of play to which we are all referring. "And if you're running around..." That's a big if...as well as an assumption. You would never catch me doing that in a heated match. Just because I supplied an escape tactic suggestion doesn't mean I use it regurlarly. That's what's messing you all up...you think strats I'm giving here are the same strats I use in matches...then you question my skill level. If you all want to be foolish like that, be my guest... If I had the money and motivation...I'd gladly go to B5 with with any of my Top 5 teams (Shuma/Hulk/Doom, Cable/CapCom/BH, IM/WM/Sent, Venom/Cable/Doom or Strider/Doom/Iceman(variable))....but that's never going to happen. VenomFang: It doesn't chip as fast when using Doom's Molecular Shield assist...but constant use of Formation A (short kick/ tiger droid) along with Hayato's Shiden assist can keep the opponent at bay anywhere on screen. You can catch an opponent anywhere (better in the corner) with S. Samurai's Ground assist...and perform a Ragnorok from there. Strider can build levels quickly with just combos alone. You can use Sammy's assist/ Ragnorok just 2-3 (depending on character) times to kill someone. Spiral's Ground assist can be used the same way. Akuma's Hurricane Kick assist/Legion...Storm's Typhoon assist/ Ragnarok...Thanos' Capture assist/ Ragnarok...Megaman's Balance assist/ Ragnarok...etc. People underrate the Ragnarok's use too often...that's why I don't give much strats on SRK...everybody think they know everything based on what they know and how they play. quote: Originally posted by ID Wtf are you playing? ST? No. quote: Most of the situations you described throughout this thread are ridiculous..The examples you used to show the usefulness of the warpkick can be Regular/doublejumped over and punished. Ridiculous...in your opinion. How the hell...explain to me...if the Vajra is being used to knock someone out of a move...how are they going to doublejump over it? The kick comes downward almost entirely preventing a jump in the first place. Second...if it's going through a move and the opponent is still in a delayed stance, how the hell can they counter at all? quote: Your use of excalibur (sp?) will get you AHVBed, or, some other super. How? Please explain further. I mentioned how they could be used...I didn't even go in depth as to how I use the Excalibur. That's what's fucking you guys up...stop comparing my strats to how you think I play. quote: Strider would be low second tier without doom. Not really. Doom makes him a much more feared character. Strider can handle most characters by himself between combos/normal moves/regular moves/super moves. Doom provides cover and chip damage in the mix. It isn't NECESSARY to win...but it helps...alot. quote: You may have had some spur of the moment matches where strider just raped opposition (Like Clockw0rk at AZ w/ omegared assist), But theres NOTHING strider can consistently do to keep winning. He'd lose to cable easy, Mags would kill him so quick, Ugh. Spur of the moment? No. Between MvsC and MvsC2, I've raped people who have tried their hardest...with constant continues, even. I remember this one guy killed me off with his Doom/Spiral trap. I came back in...and you know what saved me? Cyclops' anti air assist and Strider's Vajra assist. Strider would lose to a Cable with BH's anti air assist easy..not Cable by himself. He would lose to Magneto easy with Doom's anti air assist...not by himself. One on one with no assists whatsoever, Strider can handle both Cable and Magneto. He will walk away with damage...but he can last. Super wise...he can superjump/double completely over Mags Shockwave. A missed Tempest at close to mid range can equal a Ragnarok. Same goes for Cable's HVB. Strider's game plan is combo heavy. He should always remain in close. Him getting nailed with an AHVB is out of the question against a Strider player (like me) that plays pressure point and never lets his guard down. quote: The reason people assumed your level of play isnt Top-Level is your reasoning of what makes strider top tier. If it was that easy, 80% of pixies would be top tier. You need to play a HIGH level Person to see what Top tier can REALLy do. I gave him basic knowledge on what makes Strider top tier...I didn't feel like going in depth. Is that a problem for you? 3 pages and he still hasn't come back anyway. For the last time man...I have played HIGH leveled people. Just because they aren't well known and don't have their names and photos in game mags don't mean crap. Posted by dragonkahn on 07:16:2001 08:51 PM: Geo, your strats assume that the other player will actually commit mistakes and leave himself open from time-to-time. In real competition play, I don't think your opponent will get himself in a situation where he can't hit you during an Excalibur or he's gonna get "pinned down" by Vajra. He will minimize those mistakes, which will make those strats obsolete. I stick to what's solid and reliable, which excludes the use of Excalibur for escaping purposes or Vajra for punishment, and includes full use of regular teleports and only using Orbs, no other supers. I wouldn't wanna risk putting Strider in a situation where he can most likely get punished, which is what his laggy moves do. Strider's stamina is ridiculously low, so I stick to what works and what's safe. Posted by Geocide on 07:16:2001 09:24 PM: No matter how hard it may be able to believe, dk...EVERYONE can have a point where they are open for attack. That's how people win, after all...for jumping on the opportunity to strike when someone has their guard down. I never meant for them to be against an opponent that let's his guard down often...it's simply for ways to go after an opponent when a mistake is made. In REAL competition...I use the Vajra after a projectile (not beam). The Warp is quick...but Strider can easily be punished after it's short delay time before he lands on the ground. I prefer the Vajra simply because it's fast and efficient...and unless it's a JP projectile, not as open for punishement. I don't use the Excalibur for any type of escape. I use the Tiger Knee JP motion version when I'm below a flying opponent...and the SK version after a super jump. The opponent usually gets surprised by that...and the lag from the move gives any anti-air the opponent may do time to be missed. A Strider that relies on Ouroboros and Warps can easily be taken out. The teleport is good...better than Psylocke's but below Spiral's. If it were me and I see someone doing it a couple times...common sense would lead me to expect it...and I will catch you for your mistakes after tricking you into performing one. Orbs has much better use when the opponent is in the corner, IMO. Doom's AAA...or to certain degree, Venom's Venom Fang assist work extremely well with it...in the end, the Orbs aren't invincible. It's actually quite easy to get around them as well. I don't know why people keep knocking on his stamina. How long he can last does NOT affect his effectiveness in battle. With assists...he has a MUCH better chance of survival. Without...he is still a worthy opponent based on his speed and moves alone and can make you pay for just about any mistake. If you or anyone else want to continue to make this a "Strider + assist = Domination" thread instead of it's original purpose..."WHAT can Strider do that makes him considered top tier"....what can I say. Guess I'll have to play along... Posted by Big Pete Roasa on 07:16:2001 09:28 PM: Mags? I use the team of strider/Doom/Capt.Com that seams to shut down Mags just fine. Posted by Ranchan on 07:17:2001 12:50 AM: Well.. There's been a lot of talk about Strider Preemo's stamina.. and how it takes away from his "game" to that extent that his one on one's (or just w/o Doom Assist) makes him much weaker (or doesn't qualify him for "top tier".. whatever that means..). However, that arguement's strength relies on the assumption that the player using Strider is doing next to nothing about defense and evasion, part of which every character in the game must play. The arguement also assumes that the Strider player is making mistake after mistake. When you pick a character, you should be aware of what they have going against him/her. So he takes a little more damage. All that means is you have to play him more carefully, w/ or w/o Doom. Even if Doom was in there, you'd still not want to make mistakes. Or stop playing defense. Or stop using his speed to evade. His "stamina" only becomes an issue when you stop playing him as he needs to be played. And when he is played, he's a great character who can hold his own. Posted by Iceman on 07:17:2001 02:38 AM: quote: Originally posted by Ouroborus Strider vs. Storm: Ouroborus can halt Storm rushdown. It might not do much damage but it can give Strider some offense. What kind of offense? If Storm gets hit by the Ouroborus, then fine, Strider gets a nice combo for it. If Storm blocks the orbs, unless Strider has a chipping assist, Storm will just take a few blocked cats and then be free again. And if that chipping assist isn't Doom, Storm will take some good damage, but will easily be able to escape once the orbs are complete. Strider has more reach than Magneto and like I said before, Ouroborus halts rushdown. But no means this is an easy match for strider Strider doesn't have enough reach to make a difference. And orbs stop everything, Magneto's rushdown, and if Mags blocks, Strider's rushdown too. All orbs does is cause a stalemate during which Strider can get minimal chip damage (unless he has a good chipping assist). See Storm for the details. Magneto can't run, but he has better rushdown than Storm. Strider vs. Sentinel: Sentinel can't do much against the Ouroborus and his teleports. Ouroborus can go thru the drones. With the Orbs in motion, Strider can just rush the shit down. Sentinel will have more difficulty than most with Strider's teleports. Once again, what are the Orbs going to do that's important? Unless you can call orbs and chip Sentinel, they don't accomplish anything, just wasting time. Also, Strider needs the proper AAA or else Sentinel will stomp on Strider's head the whole match. One last thing, there is some extra fear for Sentinel. If he's hit by the orbs, he will probably get infinited for it. Strider vs. Cable: This is Striders hardest match ups. Strider can try to get some offense with the Orbs but this match goes in Cables favor. Agreed, but I still want to know what kind of serious offense can Strider use with the orbs? Other than, call orbs, chip with assist. Strider vs. Blackheart: Strider wins this one. With the Ouroborus on, BH loses his air game and Strider is free to rush. BH loses his air game cause of orbs? If BH is in the air, the orbs aren't going to help much. Once grounded, the orbs will slow things down. But the common theme of this post is, what can Strider do with orbs other than waste time if he doesn't have a chipping assist? Strider vs. Spiral: Orbs neutralize Swords and he has more range. Spiral can't attack immediately after teleporting like Strider does. I'm not saying that Strider beats Spiral but he does put up a fight. Orbs vs Swords, Orbs lose if Strider doesn't have enough time to start them (which might happen if Spiral has her traps going). How does Strider have more range? And finally, unless Strider uses Legion or a teleport, why should Spiral have to teleport? Strider vs. Doom: WTF?!? So can Doom abuse his j.FP against cyke too? the teleports can escape the pink shit and he can double jump in the air with the orbs on and nail him No, he can't because Cyclops has the Optic Blast which might duck jump.fp. If not, I know Optic sweep will duck j.FP and the angle is right to hit Doom too. But as for Strider, he can't teleport out because the teleport has start-up. I'll grant you that Strider can avoid most of the pink shit with teleports. The question remains, how will Strider do damage? Jump ins and dash ins all fight? Doom can still chip Strider with some pink shit (If Strider dodges it, no loss). Strider vs. Cyclops: As long as Strider has meter Strider wins this one. Strider can teleport away from the MOB. He has more range than Cyke. IIRC, Strider can't teleport away if Cyclops does Optic Blast xx MOB. Strider's extra range isn't a big enough factor here. Strider vs. Iron Man: Strider can teleport away from the bombs. IM can't outrush Strider cause he is too damn slow. IM can still rush Strider back. IM has an air dash. The biggest problem for IM will be beating out Strider's launcher. The fact still remains, if he hits Strider once, he can probably kill him. If not, it will take two combos instead. Strider does NOT have that much of a disadvantage of getting owned by top tiers. ALthough without the trap, he has some problems and he is considered low top tier. He is still a pale comparison without Doom though. What do you consider "that much"? Strider doesn't die for free to the majority of the top tier. But Strider only has the edge on one member, if even that. W/O Doom, Strider loses his most effective way to deal out the damage. And that alone is enough to drop him from the top tier, and just about take him out of second tier. Posted by Smiley on 07:17:2001 03:01 AM: hahahah.... the funny thing is, ppl keep talking bout the damn orbs.... NOTE TO ALL: THE ORBS NEED LEVELS!!!!!! it's not free ya know... i mean.. quote: Strider vs. Spiral: Orbs neutralize Swords and he has more range. Spiral can't attack immediately after teleporting like Strider does. I'm not saying that Strider beats Spiral but he does put up a fight. it takes a lv to 'neutralize' FREE swords..... is wasting a lv to neutralize, lessay, 12 swords really gonna make a difference in a full match? strider wastes a level to stop free swords that spiral can make with the snap of her fingers...... on all 6 hands. quote: Strider has more reach than Magneto and like I said before, Ouroborus halts rushdown. But no means this is an easy match for strider again, the orbs pop up... a mag players gonna be rushing in all match, trying to find that one short or jab that leads to a tempest combo... how many orbs can you make??? quote: Strider vs. Blackheart: Strider wins this one. With the Ouroborus on, BH loses his air game and Strider is free to rush. sigh... here we go again... once the orbs go bye bye, blackheart goes into the sky, chucks demons, and hops around the air for a while, lands, and repeats until he finds an opening... while strider's trying to build meter on the ground, cause he sure can't take BH in the air... and you say strider wins.... bah i don't wanna get flamed for this, so if you don't agree, TOO BAD! Posted by Geocide on 07:17:2001 03:56 AM: His Orbs are being blown out of proportion now. They ARE useful...but they aren't his highlight. Depending on the character...if you miss the first blocked orb...you've fucked up. Let's say you nailed someone a couple times...after getting pushed back they CAN block the rest. Orbs don't do that much chip damage, so if they are all blocked...consider it a waste of meter. He has so little time to use them all...he can't even play it right like Spiral. He doesn't need them to fully combat Spiral, anyway. She can keep him at bay with the swords...then what? He can warp behind her while she is getting more or before throwing her last one and that's it....Spiral won't get another chance like that again if the Strider player stays on her. Plus...if she gets hit once...they are all gone. That's at least ONE thing Hiryu has over her where this is concerned. With or without the Orbs, Strider can handle Mag well enough. His df + RH is great for dodging any high attack into a launcher that Mag might do to lead into the Tempest combo. In this situation...an assist like Juggernaut's Juggy Punch is almost entirely necessary. If Mag blocks the punch...the SECOND he attacks Juggy he has himself open for an attack by Strider...and since Juggy's assist takes up a wide amount of space...that's even more reason to use Juggy as a type of setup...along with Warps. Against BH? This is where people who took Excalibur for granted look foolish. Using the Tiger Knee motion, a JP Excalibur (straight up) is GREAT against BH when he starts throwing demons...or escaping entirely with the wall cling before BH jumps backwards while throwing demons and performing the RH Excalibur afterwards to catch him while he jumps forward or before trying almost anything else. He has so many ways to avoid the demons, it's not even funny. BH can't even mess with the Inferno or G. Dark Thunder often at close range. Once blocked...that equals the Ragnarok...yet another move people are taking for granted. I was experimenting a little earlier with Strider's Projectile assist and Iceman. I knew this team could be deadly...but not until I decided to take them seriously. I wouldn't call it a trap...but it is a GREAT keepaway/chip tactic. Constant use of the Icebeam while calling in Strider's assist. The bird prevents jumping...and the opponent gets chipped off by Iceman. If they get the time to jump...the bird catches them and knocks them back to the ground. The bird...if opponent is in corner...can also null assist use of the opponent. I'm talking CONSTANT use...like when doing the Doom/Strider trap. You have them block the beam, call in the assist which KEEPS them in the block position...then do the beam again...etc. It can be escaped from...but not easily if you keep up the pressure and don't forget to call in Strider almost as much as doing the Icebeam. This is yet another reason why Strider doesn't need Doom and can be just as much of a threat with other assists. Posted by Geocide on 07:17:2001 04:29 AM: Actually...scratch that. It's too much work to get the opponent setup for it to be used properly...plus it has Strider as an assist. What's better is Strider constantly throwing out tigers...and calling in Iceman's Icebeam assist. It chips somewhat fast...and once they are in that position......they are stuck unless they jump block...and Iceman's beam will catch them and push them back to the ground anyway...and they can only jump at far away range. Mid range...they are done for. Posted by Spidey22x on 07:17:2001 05:15 AM: I agree with a lot of people about Strider like Iceman for example. I use to be anti-Strider when MvsC1 came out. Not anymore. After I used him in MvsC2 I got use to his combos and attacks. Yes you can dominate without Doom but can you dominate against your Strider team against someone's Strider/Doom team? Its a hell lot harder to I think. Think about it. I am fan of the Strider/Doom trap also. But look at it this way, why push the crate when you can use the forklift? And if your not assisting and the other player is, they could be harssing you. I got some questions for you Genocide. Do you play it on Dreamcast or just Arcade? Your friend Ty had 60+ wins? How many hours was he there?! Posted by Colin on 07:17:2001 05:15 AM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide He doesn't need them to fully combat Spiral, anyway. She can keep him at bay with the swords...then what? He can warp behind her while she is getting more or before throwing her last one and that's it....Spiral won't get another chance like that again if the Strider player stays on her. Plus...if she gets hit once...they are all gone. That's at least ONE thing Hiryu has over her where this is concerned. WTF. Dude sentinel assist is coming out this whole time. If you warp behind as she calls swords then sent hits you. Not to mention that if spiral is played right, there is no time to teleport anyway since you are in blockstun so much you can barely even call an assist, much less do a strider teleport. If you had ever played a proper spiral you would already know this. I know you think you've played against spiral but you haven't. Anyway, what if strider does get in on her, what's he gonna do to keep the pressure up? Orbs? Spiral will just wait them out and since you don't have doom there is no threat there. Other than that strider's rushdown is predictable and weak and good players will not get hit. All she has to do is make you block sent one time and you are back to square one. quote: With or without the Orbs, Strider can handle Mag well enough. His df + RH is great for dodging any high attack into a launcher that Mag might do to lead into the Tempest combo. In this situation...an assist like Juggernaut's Juggy Punch is almost entirely necessary. If Mag blocks the punch...the SECOND he attacks Juggy he has himself open for an attack by Strider...and since Juggy's assist takes up a wide amount of space...that's even more reason to use Juggy as a type of setup...along with Warps. WTF? High attack into launcher? Have you ever seen Magneto? He's the red guy, towards the middle of the select screen. If you do DF RH on Magneto *EVER* whether you totally miss of it is blocked, your strider is dead. If it hits(which it wont), you get measly damage. Magneto will kill him in one combo(and no, there are no tempests involved-this isn't the easily avoided magneto combos you are used to). Juggernaut will die if you ever call him. I'll just do tempest, if strider teleports/does super/anything then I DHC to storm and kill both your characters. If you stay hardcore attack so I can't do tempest then you will get hit by my AAA and die from that. Magneto will kill strider/juggernaut ABSOLUTELY FOR FREE. That is not even a small obstacle to him. quote: Against BH? This is where people who took Excalibur for granted look foolish. Using the Tiger Knee motion, a JP Excalibur (straight up) is GREAT against BH when he starts throwing demons...or escaping entirely with the wall cling before BH jumps backwards while throwing demons and performing the RH Excalibur afterwards to catch him while he jumps forward or before trying almost anything else. He has so many ways to avoid the demons, it's not even funny. BH can't even mess with the Inferno or G. Dark Thunder often at close range. Once blocked...that equals the Ragnarok...yet another move people are taking for granted. Excalibur to superjumping BH? Are you on crack? Not only will that not hit any decent BH player with even the smallest evasion skills, if you hit you get measly damage. When you miss, which you will, BH can easily infinite you from that position and you are dead. Wall cling will get you nowhere. That's just asking for inferno->hod. I don't know what kind of BH players you have that just do infernos or dark thunders by themselves either, but any BH with a brain will not do that. However, since you have never played a good BH, Spiral, or Magneto, I don't worry about it too much however don't act like Strider can win consistently without Doom. Somebody might believe you and they will waste their time trying. -Colin Posted by ID on 07:17:2001 05:37 AM: Colin pretty much summed it up. Wake up, Man. We're talking about tourney level play here, not your everyday scrubby play. Posted by Iceman on 07:17:2001 05:39 AM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide His Orbs are being blown out of proportion now. They ARE useful...but they aren't his highlight. Depending on the character...if you miss the first blocked orb...you've fucked up. Let's say you nailed someone a couple times...after getting pushed back they CAN block the rest. Orbs don't do that much chip damage, so if they are all blocked...consider it a waste of meter. He has so little time to use them all...he can't even play it right like Spiral. Agree 100% quote: He doesn't need them to fully combat Spiral, anyway. She can keep him at bay with the swords...then what? He can warp behind her while she is getting more or before throwing her last one and that's it....Spiral won't get another chance like that again if the Strider player stays on her. Plus...if she gets hit once...they are all gone. That's at least ONE thing Hiryu has over her where this is concerned. Uhhh. Ok, imagine this. Strider/anyone, vs. Spiral/Sent. Spiral get the swords going, throws 3, calls Sentinel, throws the last 3. Strider blocks 4 (the tallest swords will miss) and the drones. If Strider blocked the drones, he will have to block another set of swords. He blocked the second set. Now, by the time Strider can teleport, Spiral has already re-loaded swords. If Strider teleports, Spiral can counter teleport on reaction and be safe. It will take a little bit of reflexes on the Spiral's part, but it is possible. If Strider get's in, he has the edge, as long as he can stay in, and NOT GET THROWN. That throw is too much damage against Strider. quote: With or without the Orbs, Strider can handle Mag well enough. His df + RH is great for dodging any high attack into a launcher that Mag might do to lead into the Tempest combo. In this situation...an assist like Juggernaut's Juggy Punch is almost entirely necessary. If Mag blocks the punch...the SECOND he attacks Juggy he has himself open for an attack by Strider...and since Juggy's assist takes up a wide amount of space...that's even more reason to use Juggy as a type of setup...along with Warps. I assume you mean use d/f+HK to avoid triangle jump ins. If so, that might work. If you meant high attacks on the ground, it won't. Most launchers from Magneto are lead into with low short. And to say magneto is vulnarable the second he attacks an assist is wrong. Unless Strider teleports in anticipation, he can't teleport in time. By the time Strider could watch, then react to Magneto, Mags has already launched that assist and is beating it with an air combo or the tempest. although if it's the Tempest, Strider might have enough time to make it in and save the assist. quote: Against BH? This is where people who took Excalibur for granted look foolish. Using the Tiger Knee motion, a JP Excalibur (straight up) is GREAT against BH when he starts throwing demons...or escaping entirely with the wall cling before BH jumps backwards while throwing demons and performing the RH Excalibur afterwards to catch him while he jumps forward or before trying almost anything else. He has so many ways to avoid the demons, it's not even funny. BH can't even mess with the Inferno or G. Dark Thunder often at close range. Once blocked...that equals the Ragnarok...yet another move people are taking for granted. Will JP Excalibur go through demons? To my knowledge, this move has no invinciblity and trying this would result in Strider getting hit, infinited, Inferno xx HoDed, and losing well over 1/2 life. I'm not sure what you are trying to say with the whole wall cling, then RH Excalibur. I missed that whole scenerio. And finally, why the hell would Blackheart use Inferno alone (w/o calling some assist or canceling into HoD) or the G. Dark Thunder unless they were mistakes? quote: I was experimenting a little earlier with Strider's Projectile assist and Iceman. I knew this team could be deadly...but not until I decided to take them seriously. I wouldn't call it a trap...but it is a GREAT keepaway/chip tactic. Constant use of the Icebeam while calling in Strider's assist. The bird prevents jumping...and the opponent gets chipped off by Iceman. If they get the time to jump...the bird catches them and knocks them back to the ground. The bird...if opponent is in corner...can also null assist use of the opponent. I'm talking CONSTANT use...like when doing the Doom/Strider trap. You have them block the beam, call in the assist which KEEPS them in the block position...then do the beam again...etc. It can be escaped from...but not easily if you keep up the pressure and don't forget to call in Strider almost as much as doing the Icebeam. This is yet another reason why Strider doesn't need Doom and can be just as much of a threat with other assists. You said to disreguard this part so I will. Strider is still top tier only with Doom. Next questions... Posted by Geocide on 07:17:2001 05:54 AM: quote: Originally posted by Spidey22x [B]Do you play it on Dreamcast or just Arcade? Both. quote: Your friend Ty had 60+ wins? How many hours was he there?! That was a normal thing with him. He was basically the top player in my old arcade. He could dominate people in anything...TTT, SC, the VS games, KOF...everything. He never stayed long because he had 2 jobs. It took him at least close 2 and a half hours to get 30 wins. He killed people THAT quickly. It's easy to guess how long it took him to get 60 or more. Posted by Colin on 07:17:2001 06:05 AM: quote: Originally posted by Iceman Uhhh. Ok, imagine this. Strider/anyone, vs. Spiral/Sent. Spiral get the swords going, throws 3, calls Sentinel, throws the last 3. Strider blocks 4 (the tallest swords will miss) and the drones. If Strider blocked the drones, he will have to block another set of swords. He blocked the second set. Now, by the time Strider can teleport, Spiral has already re-loaded swords. If Strider teleports, Spiral can counter teleport on reaction and be safe. It will take a little bit of reflexes on the Spiral's part, but it is possible. If Strider get's in, he has the edge, as long as he can stay in, and NOT GET THROWN. That throw is too much damage against Strider. Also, once spiral has swords and thinks that strider might teleport, all you have to do is toss a sword ring - throw combo which perfectly counters the teleports. quote: I assume you mean use d/f+HK to avoid triangle jump ins. If so, that might work It does not. You probably wont get out of there in time and even if you do mag can just dash behind the slide and take free hits since he is 103872098 times faster than strider's slide. Also, if magneto does a tempest and strider teleports behind him, the tempest hits far enough behind that even if you don't have the storm DHC to kill him with, strider cannot do anything from his position above and behind you except block and watch his assist get worked. If he comes out with fierce, then he will trade with the tempest hugely in mag's favor, then mag will recover from the hit in time to unrollable otg him and he'll be dead. Speaking of storm, I know I am making a case that Mag kills strider, but compared to storm vs. strider it's almost even. Storm just rapes strider so bad. Storm is pretty good against him even with doom, without him storm would virtually perfect him. Anyway, Iceman, myself, ID, and countless others are trying to tell you, and I know from personal experience exactly what the competition in the southeast USA is like(look at the top placers in the marvel tourney in Miami earlier this year for an example). You have never seen this kind of play. -Colin Posted by Geocide on 07:17:2001 06:25 AM: quote: Originally posted by Colin WTF. Dude sentinel assist is coming out this whole time. If you warp behind as she calls swords then sent hits you. Not to mention that if spiral is played right, there is no time to teleport anyway since you are in blockstun so much you can barely even call an assist, much less do a strider teleport. If you had ever played a proper spiral you would already know this. I know you think you've played against spiral but you haven't. Anyway, what if strider does get in on her, what's he gonna do to keep the pressure up? Orbs? Spiral will just wait them out and since you don't have doom there is no threat there. Other than that strider's rushdown is predictable and weak and good players will not get hit. All she has to do is make you block sent one time and you are back to square one. Um...and what makes you think Sent's assist is key for every Spiral player? Get over it. Now you're putting an entirely new scenario in involving Sentinal's droid assist. That wasn't even being talked about. Dude...believe me...I've played against Spiral. That's where the Doom/Spiral trap came in. The guy had me in the corner calling out Doom chipping me off...and KEPT me in the corner with Spiral's swords. Stop with your dumb assumptions. Your whole problem with this comeback is it's reliance on Sentinel's assist. Your opinions on Strider's rushdown doesn't make any damn bit of a difference. She IS open when replinishing her swords...and this happens while the assist is covering her. Duh...a high priority anti air mean anything? How about Strider's Vajra assist...going through and catching Spiral? Yes..it is very much possible. quote: WTF? High attack into launcher? Have you ever seen Magneto? He's the red guy, towards the middle of the select screen. If you do DF RH on Magneto *EVER* whether you totally miss of it is blocked, your strider is dead. If it hits(which it wont), you get measly damage. Magneto will kill him in one combo(and no, there are no tempests involved-this isn't the easily avoided magneto combos you are used to). Juggernaut will die if you ever call him. I'll just do tempest, if strider teleports/does super/anything then I DHC to storm and kill both your characters. If you stay hardcore attack so I can't do tempest then you will get hit by my AAA and die from that. Magneto will kill strider/juggernaut ABSOLUTELY FOR FREE. That is not even a small obstacle to him. Don't make an ass out of yourself...of course I know who Magneto is...way before he was in videogames, at that. The df RH isn't meant to be used at any point...only at times. The damage it causes doesn't mean anything...it still knocked him out of an attack...which was the point behind it in the first place. Again..."I'm used to?" Assumption. Whether Juggy dies or not doesn't matter...he buys Strider time. I figured SOMEBODY would reply with using the Tempest. Hello? The move will be expected. I'd warp behind and perform a Legion on you. The animals will catch Storm...if not, I DHC to Silver Samurai, Doom, Iceman...or one of the many characters I use with Strider to counter Storm. Have you ever heard of Snapbacks? Dude...I do them often. Before you know it, I'll have your Storm, Mag and whover else all down to 50% or so life equally from your dependance of Mag being on point...and Storms assist. Strider's combos CAN be used to link into a snapback with ease...and it doesn't matter if you call him back in the instant he's accessable..you're are gonna lose alot of life. A tactic like this used on all 3 characters can easily take you out...and we can't forget how quickly he can build levels on his own...doesn't ALL have to be for the Ouroboros, you know. Don't depend on your AAA...I guarantee you'll lose the match that much faster. I've already said Strider is a combo heavy in close guy and should be played with guard up cautiously. Legion and Ouroboros, as well as my own assists is all that would be needed to kill off you and your AAA at once. I's even have your assist attack mine so I could go after both of you. Your screwed if that happens. quote: Excalibur to superjumping BH? Are you on crack? Not only will that not hit any decent BH player with even the smallest evasion skills, if you hit you get measly damage. When you miss, which you will, BH can easily infinite you from that position and you are dead. Wall cling will get you nowhere. That's just asking for inferno->hod. I don't know what kind of BH players you have that just do infernos or dark thunders by themselves either, but any BH with a brain will not do that. I was talking about normal jumping BH...not super. Who the hell is going to stay clinged to the wall for long? Glide to the other side...downward kick and knock you out of mid move...what...are you not thinking? When did I say they do DT's and Inferno's by themselves? I didn't. That's right...just keep on assuming, man...but I'll tell you from now...it's making you look like an ass. If you don't know for a fact...then don't say anything. I've played many fierce BH players down here...all doing exactly what you THINK they aren't. Air dashing, demons or infinite, air Judgement Day crossups....etc. quote: However, since you have never played a good BH, Spiral, or Magneto You know what this is, right? Do I even need to spell it out for you now? If you're gonna keep comparing the strats I give to how you think I play and the type of people you think I've played...then don't bother replying again. quote: I don't worry about it too much however don't act like Strider can win consistently without Doom. Somebody might believe you and they will waste their time trying. You obviously can't pull it off without Doom if your telling me that. Don't say it can't be done...because it can. Stop wasting your time replying if they are all going to be as lame as this reply....throwing in insults didn't help you, either. Posted by Geocide on 07:17:2001 06:32 AM: quote: Originally posted by ID Colin pretty much summed it up. Wake up, Man. We're talking about tourney level play here, not your everyday scrubby play. Define tourny play. What makes it different from normal play is the battles are more heated...and the players are more focused. I don't know about you, but I don't play against scrubs. If Miami was that bad...then I WOULD be traveling out of state looking for worthy comp, now wouldn't I? Posted by Geocide on 07:17:2001 07:01 AM: quote: Originally posted by Iceman Uhhh. Ok, imagine this. Strider/anyone, vs. Spiral/Sent. Spiral get the swords going, throws 3, calls Sentinel, throws the last 3. Strider blocks 4 (the tallest swords will miss) and the drones. If Strider blocked the drones, he will have to block another set of swords. He blocked the second set. Now, by the time Strider can teleport, Spiral has already re-loaded swords. If Strider teleports, Spiral can counter teleport on reaction and be safe. It will take a little bit of reflexes on the Spiral's part, but it is possible. If Strider get's in, he has the edge, as long as he can stay in, and NOT GET THROWN. That throw is too much damage against Strider. How about...avoiding this whole scenario by simply sumper jumping before she has a chance to get serious with her sword play? No block first 4..no blocking drones...nothing. Then what? And who said anything about teleporting? How about throwing tigers, hawks and Orbs to counter everything Spiral throws? Now...what if this is done in the corner when both teleports? You know what happens? Spiral just got setup for a corner trap with Doom. If not Doom...she can be thrown...and the whole avoidance thing will begin again from scratch only on the opposite side of the screen. quote: I assume you mean use d/f+HK to avoid triangle jump ins. If so, that might work. If you meant high attacks on the ground, it won't. Most launchers from Magneto are lead into with low short. And to say magneto is vulnarable the second he attacks an assist is wrong. Unless Strider teleports in anticipation, he can't teleport in time. By the time Strider could watch, then react to Magneto, Mags has already launched that assist and is beating it with an air combo or the tempest. although if it's the Tempest, Strider might have enough time to make it in and save the assist. MOST launchers...but not all. Don't get it twisted. This reliance on the thought of what to expect will always get you when you get caught by something that was unexpected. Now think about it. I'm going to be you for a moment and tell you what to expect. They will probably RH Juggy...Shockwave to push Strider back while hitting him...Tempest, but Strider can avoid it completely and counter...EM Disruptor but if Strider is close enough, that equals a Ragnarok....etc. This is all done during Mag's lag time...in which you somehow forgot to mention. Strider CAN teleport in time. Caught in an air combo? That's what the JP Excalibur can be used for again. Mag won't see it coming...and Juggy gets spared. Don't even worry about the little damage caused...Mag still got stopped. quote: Will JP Excalibur go through demons? To my knowledge, this move has no invinciblity and trying this would result in Strider getting hit, infinited, Inferno xx HoDed, and losing well over 1/2 life. I'm not sure what you are trying to say with the whole wall cling, then RH Excalibur. I missed that whole scenerio. And finally, why the hell would Blackheart use Inferno alone (w/o calling some assist or canceling into HoD) or the G. Dark Thunder unless they were mistakes? Not through the demons. You can pin an opponent down by simply normal jumping forth and backward throwing demons..not at all super jumping. This is where timing is critical...and the lag from Excalibur is used efficiently. You can land the TK version when BH is jumping towards you...but before the demons get thrown. It will land you 2-3 hits...as well as freedom. The wall cling was being used in this scenario...avoiding the demons entirely...and RH Excalibur before they could super jump or jump forward...because the wall cling is fast enough to allow you to do so much in such little time. Now picture this...with or without assist...BH can get caught. After HoD...he's open while falling. The only real assist I would ever use with BH's Inferno is CapCom's Corridor...or Thanos' bubble. G. DT...maybe a ground type like Spiral or Silver Samurai. quote: You said to disreguard this part so I will. Strider is still top tier only with Doom. Next questions... I don't think this convo is even about what makes him top tier anymore...but whatever. I'm no longer argueing with any of you on this. Why? because I play Strider/Doom often. If I can't convince you that he can be ok without Doom, then so be it. I won't try anymore. Posted by Geocide on 07:17:2001 07:10 AM: quote: Originally posted by Colin Anyway, Iceman, myself, ID, and countless others are trying to tell you, and I know from personal experience exactly what the competition in the southeast USA is like(look at the top placers in the marvel tourney in Miami earlier this year for an example). You have never seen this kind of play. Countless? Dude...I can count 5-6 of you just fine. Most of the people that came in weren't even talking about how he needs Doom...they were on some other shit. Get this right. You do NOT know what the comp is like here in Miami. I hate when people who visit here or close by say that crap after they fought a few people in a couple spots down here. Most of the state's top players don't even play anymore. I didn't start playing again until like Summer of last year. If anything...don't compare me to the people in that tournament...don't even place me in the same category with everyone else in the southeast. I'm not the best...but you are making me seem underrated because of my location...and that's a bunch of bull. I have seen this type of play...believe me. Posted by Hoe Muffin on 07:17:2001 08:07 AM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide Countless? Dude...I can count 5-6 of you just fine. Most of the people that came in weren't even talking about how he needs Doom...they were on some other shit. Get this right. You do NOT know what the comp is like here in Miami. I hate when people who visit here or close by say that crap after they fought a few people in a couple spots down here. Most of the state's top players don't even play anymore. I didn't start playing again until like Summer of last year. If anything...don't compare me to the people in that tournament...don't even place me in the same category with everyone else in the southeast. I'm not the best...but you are making me seem underrated because of my location...and that's a bunch of bull. I have seen this type of play...believe me. Of course, the same argument holds true for others, ie. you can make no claim at knowing the competition in California/Midwest/Chinatown or what not, since I believe you've mentioned that you don't go out of state to compete in tourneys. In which case, then, I might aruge that I too have seen Striders played in such a manner and get killed by the aforementioned strategies suggested by others. Either way, it doesn't really get us anywhere, now does it? Posted by Geocide on 07:17:2001 09:44 AM: quote: Originally posted by Hoe Muffin Of course, the same argument holds true for others, ie. you can make no claim at knowing the competition in California/Midwest/Chinatown or what not, since I believe you've mentioned that you don't go out of state to compete in tourneys. In which case, then, I might aruge that I too have seen Striders played in such a manner and get killed by the aforementioned strategies suggested by others. Either way, it doesn't really get us anywhere, now does it? I know how the comp may be in Cali and other places based on studying up on top players and their play styles...as well as watching tourney footage. I have seen Striders get killed like you...I have seen Striders played better and not get killed at all. I for one know this thread is no longer leading anyone anywhere...other than people, from what I'm assuming, trying to convince me that he needs Doom, I say he doesn't, I give facts on what makes him top tier, they don't agree and question my play level, compare me to other people because I live in Miami...blah blah...so on and so forth. Posted by MarkyMark on 07:17:2001 03:04 PM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide His Orbs are being blown out of proportion now. They ARE useful...but they aren't his highlight. Depending on the character...if you miss the first blocked orb...you've fucked up. Let's say you nailed someone a couple times...after getting pushed back they CAN block the rest. Orbs don't do that much chip damage, so if they are all blocked...consider it a waste of meter. He has so little time to use them all...he can't even play it right like Spiral. You're missing the point of Orbs. You have no idea how to use Strider. Orbs are used for control, and letting Strider get close to call Doom for massive chip damage. Orbs are not for comboing, or causing chip damage themselves. quote: Originally posted by Geocide The df RH isn't meant to be used at any point...only at times. What the Hell are you trying to say? Not at any point... only at times. You say it so confidently, like it makes sense or something. It doesn't, though I appreciate you saying it anyway. My friend here, who knows very little about MvC2, and I laughed our asses off. I don't get where this confidence is coming from. You obviously have flawed reasoning. Your logic is impaired by some unknown force. "Quit assuming I [blah, blah, blah - insert stupidity here]" when it's obvious by what you've said. "Just block Inferno and counter with Ragnarok." If we're assuming you don't mean Inferno XX Heart of Darkness, how can you blame us when HoD has no recovery to punish with Ragnarok anyway? How can you blame us for assuming that you have horrible competition (making you a horrible player) when you start saying that you'll teleport out of Spiral traps (she reloads swords and throws them too quickly to fit in a Strider teleport), and that you'll Excalibur a normal jumping Blackheart, when anyone who's good with Blackheart is super jumping instead... though even then, Excalibur versus Demons is not good for Strider's health. Posted by Geocide on 07:17:2001 08:41 PM: quote: Originally posted by MarkyMark You're missing the point of Orbs. You have no idea how to use Strider. Orbs are used for control, and letting Strider get close to call Doom for massive chip damage. Orbs are not for comboing, or causing chip damage themselves. There you go yet again with false assumptions. I do know how to use Strider...and I know how Orbs are used frequently. I KNOW orbs aren't good for combos and chipping. Furthermore...they are more commonly used to push an opponent back into the corner along with Doom...and from there, people usually do the Doom/Strider trap. quote: What the Hell are you trying to say? Not at any point... only at times. You say it so confidently, like it makes sense or something. It doesn't, though I appreciate you saying it anyway. My friend here, who knows very little about MvC2, and I laughed our asses off. Go back and re-read it then...slowly. As for you and your friend laughing....that's nice....but why are you telling me? Did you think I would care? quote: I don't get where this confidence is coming from. You obviously have flawed reasoning. Your logic is impaired by some unknown force. "Quit assuming I [blah, blah, blah - insert stupidity here]" when it's obvious by what you've said. "Just block Inferno and counter with Ragnarok." If we're assuming you don't mean Inferno XX Heart of Darkness, how can you blame us when HoD has no recovery to punish with Ragnarok anyway? How can you blame us for assuming that you have horrible competition (making you a horrible player) when you start saying that you'll teleport out of Spiral traps (she reloads swords and throws them too quickly to fit in a Strider teleport), and that you'll Excalibur a normal jumping Blackheart, when anyone who's good with Blackheart is super jumping instead... though even then, Excalibur versus Demons is not good for Strider's health. I figured this would happen. I see it now...you've taken your misunderstanding of what I've been saying to another level based on your inability to comprehend. Quite frankly...you can say whatever the hell you want now. In the end...you still haven't seen me or other similar Striders play...and you still made an ass out of yourself by: 1)Drawing conclusions via assumptions 2)Comparing your style/Cali style to what I've said 3)Bringing in my skill level and going off topic Hey...if you've got nothing else to say...then don't say anything. You're wasting your time. Posted by MarkyMark on 07:17:2001 11:41 PM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide There you go yet again with false assumptions. I do know how to use Strider...and I know how Orbs are used frequently. I KNOW orbs aren't good for combos and chipping. Furthermore...they are more commonly used to push an opponent back into the corner along with Doom...and from there, people usually do the Doom/Strider trap. What the Hell? You start a post by saying "Orbs are overrated because they're not very good for combos and don't do much chip damage," and when I tell you that they're not supposed to do that, you act like you knew it all along, and accuse me of assuming that you're a moron, when in actuality, you really are one. quote: Originally posted by Geocide Go back and re-read it then...slowly. As for you and your friend laughing....that's nice....but why are you telling me? Did you think I would care? Okay, I re-read it a couple of times, and you still make no sense. Time? Point? Point in what? Time? quote: Originally posted by Geocide I figured this would happen. I see it now...you've taken your misunderstanding of what I've been saying to another level based on your inability to comprehend. Quite frankly...you can say whatever the hell you want now. In the end...you still haven't seen me or other similar Striders play...and you still made an ass out of yourself by: 1)Drawing conclusions via assumptions 2)Comparing your style/Cali style to what I've said 3)Bringing in my skill level and going off topic Conclusions via assumptions? When you say a bunch of somethings stupid, you're right, I'll assume you're stupid. Comparing "Cali style" to any other style is like comparing the NFL to Pop Warner football - "Cali style" (which is the same style used everywhere where people have a well-known name) is simply the best, most advanced style. If you think I'm an ass for comparing your shitty "strats" to ones that are actually good, then you're just being stupid. Bringing in your skill level deals directly with the discussion, in that it ultimately nullifies any base your "strats" might have otherwise. quote: Originally posted by Geocide Hey...if you've got nothing else to say...then don't say anything. You're wasting your time. Nothing else to say? Let's recap on your last few posts. "You're just assuming. You don't know how we play down here. You're being an ass." I'm not the one for having a five word vocabulary. And I'm not even Shakespeare. Hello? Posted by Geocide on 07:18:2001 12:49 AM: quote: Originally posted by MarkyMark What the Hell? You start a post by saying "Orbs are overrated because they're not very good for combos and don't do much chip damage," and when I tell you that they're not supposed to do that, you act like you knew it all along, and accuse me of assuming that you're a moron, when in actuality, you really are one. You just keep making yourself look dumb everytime. His Orbs are being blown out of proportion now. They ARE useful...but they aren't his highlight. Depending on the character...if you miss the first blocked orb...you've fucked up. Let's say you nailed someone a couple times...after getting pushed back they CAN block the rest. Orbs don't do that much chip damage, so if they are all blocked...consider it a waste of meter. He has so little time to use them all...he can't even play it right like Spiral. Read it...slowly. When did I say AT ALL..."Orbs are overrated because they're not very good for combos and don't do much chip damage"...(?) I never did. I simply added those flaws to the statement..not REASONS that make them overrated...and on that note...when the fuck did I say they were overrated? Look man...I could care less now about all of this. It's gone from discussing Strider being top tier...to questioning my skills...to questioning my intelligence. I think it's safe to say you are the only true moron here for not being able to keep a leveled head throughout all of this and staying on topic...your assumptions and insults aren't necessary either to get a point across. quote: Okay, I re-read it a couple of times, and you still make no sense. Time? Point? Point in what? Time? Get somebody to read it for you, then. I mean...I even went ahead and explained what I meant in a reply to Iceman. It's obvious you can't read as well as you think you can. quote: Conclusions via assumptions? When you say a bunch of somethings stupid, you're right, I'll assume you're stupid. Comparing "Cali style" to any other style is like comparing the NFL to Pop Warner football - "Cali style" (which is the same style used everywhere where people have a well-known name) is simply the best, most advanced style. If you think I'm an ass for comparing your shitty "strats" to ones that are actually good, then you're just being stupid. Bringing in your skill level deals directly with the discussion, in that it ultimately nullifies any base your "strats" might have otherwise. You have a warped sense of reality. Location doesn't mean anything. If you want to go along with that...then you're full of crap...because 'Cali style' isn't the best and most advanced style...that's your opinion. If that were the case, Valle and other Cali residents would be UNBEATABLE...but they have been beaten. You're being an ass for doing an unnecessary comparison in the first place...and I could care less how shitty you think my strats are. You're even more of an ass by thinking any starts I give in here, are strats I use in competitive play. It's simply strats/tactics in general...not MY strats...dumbass...get it right. Whether you find other strats better...it doesn't matter. All your talk isn't going to stop the fact that Strider is top tier, now is it? Stop wasting your breath. quote: Nothing else to say? Let's recap on your last few posts. "You're just assuming. You don't know how we play down here. You're being an ass." I'm not the one for having a five word vocabulary. And I'm not even Shakespeare. Hello? 5 word vocabulary? How lame. Do you see my sentences made of just 5 words? C'mon man...think. I find it funny...it seems as though your letting this discussion make you irate. If this is a fact...then you're an idiot. Your crap has been just that...assumptions on my playstyle. You don't know how the competition is down here. You are being an ass. Whether your in denial...doesn't matter. All 3 are facts. I'm done with this topic. It's not even leading any of us anywhere except into a flame war..so whatever. Reply if you want...it won't be read. I'm letting this thread drop. Posted by Smiley on 07:18:2001 01:24 AM: my scrub point of view: strider doesn't last very long w/o doom... doom provides what strider needs to actually do damage, a method to cross-up, or provide LOTS of free damage w/ the orbs. without doom, strider doesn't get the 'free' damage that doom provides, as well as not getting the time he needs to reload orbs and such... even if he had an AAA that gives him the means necessary to cross up and do damage, how much damage can strider do in one combo? besides infinates, of course. what doom SPECIFICALLY does is give him a chance to toss a couple of pets and reload orbs... you can do that w/ other assists can you now? so, in sumamry, in terms of EQUAL skill, like valle playing himself or something, strider doesn't do too well by himself against the other top tier. if clockwork was to play me w/ his strider/servebot/dan team against my srider/doom/capcom team, i'll still lose, why? cause i ain't clockwork. so all that stuff about how so and so havn't seen the type of competition here, or he plays against scrubs, blah blah blah is all, in essence, trash. i don't want to start any flaming or anything, but that's just my 2 cents. and one more thing, strider's top tier cause he looks like tom cruise w/o his scarf! c'mon! you know that's true! Posted by L337Shizumaru on 07:18:2001 01:53 AM: Someone make an avatar with some compilation of Strider and Tom Cruise! You will get mad props. Posted by Smiley on 07:18:2001 02:06 AM: hahahahahah Posted by Iceman on 07:18:2001 03:17 AM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide How about...avoiding this whole scenario by simply sumper jumping before she has a chance to get serious with her sword play? No block first 4..no blocking drones...nothing. Then what? And who said anything about teleporting? How about throwing tigers, hawks and Orbs to counter everything Spiral throws? Now...what if this is done in the corner when both teleports? You know what happens? Spiral just got setup for a corner trap with Doom. If not Doom...she can be thrown...and the whole avoidance thing will begin again from scratch only on the opposite side of the screen. If Strider Super jumps away before Spiral gets the sword trap going, then Spiral can call swords (if she has fewer than 4 or 5), jump and throw a sword ring for protection, then recall swords, and begin trapping once Strider lands. I know Strider can throw animals fast, but I don't belive he can throw them fast enough to keep up with Spirals mess of swords and assists (usually Sent-Y, sometimes Cable, Iceman, or even Iron Man's beam assists among others). This means Strider has to call an assist to take some hits and get out of there, be it by teleport or super jump. If it's teleport, Spiral can counter teleport, which puts you back where you started, and I just said how Spiral can put you back where you started once you super jump. Strider's best chance to survive is to find a way to activate the orbs, and put the pressure on Spiral. If she blocks, use an assist to chip (help, need Doom), if she super jumps, go after her, if she teleports, hit her with an assist or jump and hit her as she reappears. quote: MOST launchers...but not all. Don't get it twisted. This reliance on the thought of what to expect will always get you when you get caught by something that was unexpected. Now think about it. I'm going to be you for a moment and tell you what to expect. They will probably RH Juggy...Shockwave to push Strider back while hitting him...Tempest, but Strider can avoid it completely and counter...EM Disruptor but if Strider is close enough, that equals a Ragnarok....etc. This is all done during Mag's lag time...in which you somehow forgot to mention. Strider CAN teleport in time. Caught in an air combo? That's what the JP Excalibur can be used for again. Mag won't see it coming...and Juggy gets spared. Don't even worry about the little damage caused...Mag still got stopped. Well, yes most launchers. The only way Magneto won't start a combo with a low short, launcher is if he's punishing somebody's recovery, starting it from his kick throw, or he's using low short+assist (90% of the time Psylocke), low forward to start it. No, if Juggy is blocked, and Magneto is going to try to kill him, he'll probably use low short, low fierce, ( maybe xx Hyper Grav into) xx Tempest. If Strider Teleports behind Magneto, he will probably teleport into the tempest and be forced to block (it will hit immediatly behind him). If Magneto launces Juggy (or any assist for that matter) into an air combo, this is one time you could use and Excalibur to catch him, though I'd personally just Super jump after him with a fierce. But this is somewhat of a mind game, because should Strider teleport he will probably make Magneto turn around away from the assist, and if nothing else, Magneto can air dash away from Strider, and there's a chance of Strider being hurt for that. Nothing is guaranteed, but Magneto is controlling the situation (like that old bastard usually does). quote: Not through the demons. You can pin an opponent down by simply normal jumping forth and backward throwing demons..not at all super jumping. This is where timing is critical...and the lag from Excalibur is used efficiently. You can land the TK version when BH is jumping towards you...but before the demons get thrown. It will land you 2-3 hits...as well as freedom. The wall cling was being used in this scenario...avoiding the demons entirely...and RH Excalibur before they could super jump or jump forward...because the wall cling is fast enough to allow you to do so much in such little time. Now picture this...with or without assist...BH can get caught. After HoD...he's open while falling. The only real assist I would ever use with BH's Inferno is CapCom's Corridor...or Thanos' bubble. G. DT...maybe a ground type like Spiral or Silver Samurai. Well, personally, I don't use normal jumping demons. I find that once BH can pin his opponent down, sj. demons followed up with a second set of them, or with a tail shot on the way down is good enough to give most characters trouble. Only Ken assist can break this up 100% of the time. As for the wall cling, I'm not sure if the wall switch or the wall dive are fast enough to avoid an Inferno. If they aren't, then that is a bad move for Strider to use on BH. When using Infernos alone, Capt Corridor was just the assist I had in mind to call. It's the only assist I'd trust there. quote: I don't think this convo is even about what makes him top tier anymore...but whatever. I'm no longer argueing with any of you on this. Why? because I play Strider/Doom often. If I can't convince you that he can be ok without Doom, then so be it. I won't try anymore. Actually, I'm discussing why I don't think Strider is close to top tier w/o Doom. I'm talking about why Strider can't match-up with any of the top tier characters. The bottom line of what makes a character top tier is match-ups. W/O Doom, Strider doesn't have any matches vs. the top tier (except MAYBE Sentinel) where he has a real advantage. IMO, all these matches with that one possible exception, Strider should lose more than 1/2 of the time. Therefore I don't beleive Strider should be considered top tier, unless it's Strider/Doom (Strider + something that chips well like Spiral-A, Icebeam, Sent Drones, or maybe even Iron Man's Unibeam or Silver Sam's star assist could be second tier and dangerous). P.S. If I make any horrible grammar or spelling errors, sorry. I'm very tired tonight zzzzzzz...... Posted by BlackShinobi on 07:18:2001 03:27 AM: This observation has nothing to do with traps or combos just pure strider Today I killed Strider before he touched the ground (without a Guardbreak) In all totalled 1 special, and 1 1/2 supers and no normal hits The fact that you can die that quickly on moderately set damage is not a big plus for a character. to restate he died in about 3 MVC2 seconds without ever having his feet touch the ground. What the fuck is that? Posted by ID on 07:18:2001 03:29 AM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide You just keep making yourself look dumb everytime. Uh,No Thats actually you. And you didnt PROVE strider is top tier without doom. You didnt prove ANYTHING except for the fact that you're just another 'OmegaRedGuru' with 'Oh, its not MY fault that the striders in TOP LEVEL TOURNEY PLAY cant handle themselves without doom. My strider can' All you did was give a bunch of strats that DONT work, then when people who KNOW how to play the game proved it wrong, what do you say? 'Just cause i posted the strats doesent mean I use those strats. They arent even my strats.' And lastly, when ALL else fails, you cant admit that you were wrong, you just go ahead and Run away , out the thread, crying. Posted by VenomFang on 07:18:2001 03:36 AM: Geocide said: quote: Now picture this...with or without assist...BH can get caught. After HoD...he's open while falling. If you mean open as in, "yep, he's still there on the screen," you're right. If you mean open as in, "he's falling, he can't block," you're wrong. Thank you, come again. -vf Posted by Geocide on 07:18:2001 03:45 AM: quote: Originally posted by VenomFang Geocide said: If you mean open as in, "yep, he's still there on the screen," you're right. If you mean open as in, "he's falling, he can't block," you're wrong. Thank you, come again. -vf He can't block a few seconds after falling. Halfway, he can. Strider doesn't have the speed to attack him there...but time to escape and come up with a new plan. Posted by Geocide on 07:18:2001 03:53 AM: quote: Originally posted by ID Uh,No Thats actually you. And you didnt PROVE strider is top tier without doom. You didnt prove ANYTHING except for the fact that you're just another 'OmegaRedGuru' with 'Oh, its not MY fault that the striders in TOP LEVEL TOURNEY PLAY cant handle themselves without doom. My strider can' All you did was give a bunch of strats that DONT work, then when people who KNOW how to play the game proved it wrong, what do you say? 'Just cause i posted the strats doesent mean I use those strats. They arent even my strats.' And lastly, when ALL else fails, you cant admit that you were wrong, you just go ahead and Run away , out the thread, crying. Dude...alot of people agreed that Strider's abilities make him top tier...not Doom. I went on to list his abilities. That basically means I DID say what makes him top tier. Being compared to ORG is actually an honor. Only thing is I'm not all talk. I can live with criticsm. Nobody proved any of my strats wrong...they simply listed ways they could be countered...that doesn't mean my strats can't work AT ALL. I'm not a bitch. I just get lazy...so I give up temporarily. Frankly...if you all were like Iceman, there wouldn't be a problem. He proved how Strider can be beat. His type of response is what I'm looking for. Not crappy assumptions and insults from you, Mark and whoever else. I didn't run away...and I don't cry. Wanna continue the discussion...then here I am. Up to now, you are the main one I see running his mouth, backing people up but not trying to prove me wrong himself. Posted by Geocide on 07:18:2001 03:55 AM: quote: Originally posted by BlackShinobi This observation has nothing to do with traps or combos just pure strider Today I killed Strider before he touched the ground (without a Guardbreak) In all totalled 1 special, and 1 1/2 supers and no normal hits The fact that you can die that quickly on moderately set damage is not a big plus for a character. to restate he died in about 3 MVC2 seconds without ever having his feet touch the ground. What the fuck is that? At least he's better than Servbot. *shrugs* Posted by BlackShinobi on 07:18:2001 04:26 AM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide At least he's better than Servbot. *shrugs* They actually operate under the same principle, which is they're both good until you hit them, especially with juggernaut btw the combo the combo that killed him was inferno XX HOD, DHC into Headcrush. Tron tagged out because the block damage would have killed her and strider jumped right into the inferno. the sad part is that if you DHC out of a HOD before the end you miss most of the damage hence the 1 1/2 supers Posted by Geocide on 07:18:2001 05:31 AM: Was your Juggy glitched, Shinobi? Posted by BlackShinobi on 07:18:2001 06:06 AM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide Was your Juggy glitched, Shinobi? Always for the last week or so I have been trying to find all of the supers that DHC ino an 8 hit headcrush Posted by Vonstar on 07:18:2001 08:02 AM: strider/doom is top tier strider solo is NOT top tier Posted by ID on 07:18:2001 08:28 AM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide Dude...alot of people agreed that Strider's abilities make him top tier...not Doom. I went on to list his abilities. That basically means I DID say what makes him top tier. Being compared to ORG is actually an honor. Only thing is I'm not all talk. I can live with criticsm. Nobody proved any of my strats wrong...they simply listed ways they could be countered...that doesn't mean my strats can't work AT ALL. I'm not a bitch. I just get lazy...so I give up temporarily. Frankly...if you all were like Iceman, there wouldn't be a problem. He proved how Strider can be beat. His type of response is what I'm looking for. Not crappy assumptions and insults from you, Mark and whoever else. I didn't run away...and I don't cry. Wanna continue the discussion...then here I am. Up to now, you are the main one I see running his mouth, backing people up but not trying to prove me wrong himself. Like I said before, most of the strats you listed (excaliburing BH, DF RH against mag, Teleporting thru spiral swords) will NOT work maybe 80% of the time, thats why people, including me went and assumed they're wrong. pretty much every strat is bound to work once in a while, even if its really retarded, because its unexpected. What makes a character top tier is the fact that their main strat WORKS more often then not. Now, do you honestly think that Strider can win against BH? Even if somehow, excalibur DOES go thru the demons, which it doesent, BH can airdash, and if strider misses. he's gonna eat lk lk assist, inferno xx HOD, at the least, thats 50% damage on him. Yet, if he hit, he would do, maybe 2% damage on BH, they'd both land, BH would roll, SJ, start again. Teleporting thru swords? Now thats something that doesent work, at all. Strider can be hit during his teleport start up, and theres almost always a knife on the screen. You argue "Spiral CAN be punished during the time she reloads her knives", but how're you gonna punish her when you're blocking Sent drones? Noone called you a bitch..Well, atleast not me. You're being idiotic by thinking that the strats you listed make Strider top tier. Until you can give some strats which actually WORK, and arent "Oh, IF xx is doing this,and is being played by a blind guy, it'll work", MAybe I can actually start seeing your point of view. The way you're arguing, Someone could goahead and give some strats with Spiderman, which would work against some of the top tier chars in certain cituation, it wouldnt make Spiderman top tier. Posted by Geocide on 07:18:2001 08:46 AM: quote: Originally posted by ID Like I said before, most of the strats you listed (excaliburing BH, DF RH against mag, Teleporting thru spiral swords) will NOT work maybe 80% of the time, thats why people, including me went and assumed they're wrong. pretty much every strat is bound to work once in a while, even if its really retarded, because its unexpected. What makes a character top tier is the fact that their main strat WORKS more often then not. Now, do you honestly think that Strider can win against BH? Even if somehow, excalibur DOES go thru the demons, which it doesent, BH can airdash, and if strider misses. he's gonna eat lk lk assist, inferno xx HOD, at the least, thats 50% damage on him. Yet, if he hit, he would do, maybe 2% damage on BH, they'd both land, BH would roll, SJ, start again. Teleporting thru swords? Now thats something that doesent work, at all. Strider can be hit during his teleport start up, and theres almost always a knife on the screen. You argue "Spiral CAN be punished during the time she reloads her knives", but how're you gonna punish her when you're blocking Sent drones? Noone called you a bitch..Well, atleast not me. You're being idiotic by thinking that the strats you listed make Strider top tier. Until you can give some strats which actually WORK, and arent "Oh, IF xx is doing this,and is being played by a blind guy, it'll work", MAybe I can actually start seeing your point of view. The way you're arguing, Someone could goahead and give some strats with Spiderman, which would work against some of the top tier chars in certain cituation, it wouldnt make Spiderman top tier. Understandable....and you're right on various things mentioned. Earlier I took a trip to an arcade and my Strider/Cable/CapCom got killed. I re-entered with Strider/Doom/Cable....and yeah....I pretty much owned the match. What I'm saying is...Doom beings out the best in Strider. So basically...he does...to a certain degree where I'm concerned...make Strider top tier. Aside from this...my lack of play in MvsC2 has made me a born again scrub where strats are concerned. Guess I gotta change that and start playing more often again. *shrugs* Posted by ID on 07:18:2001 09:18 AM: Damn I liked your old avatar. Posted by Geocide on 07:18:2001 09:24 AM: quote: Originally posted by ID Damn I liked your old avatar. Got tired of it. I'll probably make another one to replace it soon enough, anyway. Posted by ATM SPIDERTAO on 07:18:2001 10:04 AM: hey geocide, is maiami FL better than orlando FL? like if the best guy from bother cities were to fight in MVC2, who would win? Posted by Geocide on 07:18:2001 08:44 PM: quote: Originally posted by ATM SPIDERTAO hey geocide, is maiami FL better than orlando FL? like if the best guy from bother cities were to fight in MVC2, who would win? If we have a SFC (South Florida Challenge) every year from now on, and players from both Orlando and Florida come together...it will be much easier to make final judgment. But for now...in my opinion...the best Miami player would win based on my experience with alot of top Miami players and experience with a few typical Orlando players. I don't think most people from Orlando could handle Ty or Carlos...or any of the other top players here. Posted by MarkyMark on 07:19:2001 05:39 AM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide Aside from this...my lack of play in MvsC2 has made me a born again scrub where strats are concerned. Guess I gotta change that and start playing more often again. *shrugs* Errr, is this you conceding? ... V Posted by Geocide on 07:19:2001 06:21 AM: quote: Originally posted by MarkyMark Errr, is this you conceding? ... V Conceding? Far from it. If you guys didn't jump to such craptacular assumptions, you would have probably known. Hell...I even had 'Born Again Scrub' as my custom user text for awhile. I've got alot to re-learn...I knew that waaaay before entering this thread. Wasn't my fault somebody had to throw Doom in and throw everthing off. *shrugs* Posted by DarthSalamander on 07:19:2001 07:25 AM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide He can't block a few seconds after falling. Halfway, he can. Strider doesn't have the speed to attack him there...but time to escape and come up with a new plan. After HOD BH is left in normal jump status. Right after the super ends he can attack, block, whatever. IF you ram on a button during HOD the second the super ends BH will do the action. He would also be able to block. Posted by Geocide on 07:19:2001 07:48 AM: quote: Originally posted by DarthSalamander After HOD BH is left in normal jump status. Right after the super ends he can attack, block, whatever. IF you ram on a button during HOD the second the super ends BH will do the action. He would also be able to block. When the final hit of the move is blocked or missed...WHILE going into normal jump status...he can't block. It's as if he's still in his floating 'unable to block' pose. Before...maybe in 1 or 2 frames...and during the frame transistion...he's wide open. Most common moves I've seen being used to catch him are CapCom's Corridor/Sword, Doom's Rising Sphere and Storm's 'single spot' Typhoon (usually when the move is missed entirely. The guy who used BH even complained that he was blocking). Posted by DarthSalamander on 07:19:2001 10:15 AM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide When the final hit of the move is blocked or missed...WHILE going into normal jump status...he can't block. It's as if he's still in his floating 'unable to block' pose. Before...maybe in 1 or 2 frames...and during the frame transistion...he's wide open. Most common moves I've seen being used to catch him are CapCom's Corridor/Sword, Doom's Rising Sphere and Storm's 'single spot' Typhoon (usually when the move is missed entirely. The guy who used BH even complained that he was blocking). Sounds like BH just got hit before the super was over. There is no frame transition. One frame he is still in HOD, next frame HOD is over and he is able to block. Posted by Geocide on 07:19:2001 08:20 PM: quote: Originally posted by DarthSalamander Sounds like BH just got hit before the super was over. There is no frame transition. One frame he is still in HOD, next frame HOD is over and he is able to block. It's a possibility...but it's unlikely. There's like 3 frames AFTER the move but before he goes into normal jump status...and one of them leaves him open. I'll leave it at that, though. Unless pushbacked early or completely missed, most people won't react that fast normally anyway. All times are GMT. The time now is 11:44 PM. Show all 104 posts from this thread on one page Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.4 Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Limited 2000, 2001.